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Proficiency maneuver?

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Hi guys,

I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating 

proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting 

20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above 

stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding 

altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with 

no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at 

4000 feet.  I've had to do this thing several times the last couple of 

years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a 

C-172.  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you 

only get a feel for at the time it counts.



Does anyone have the name of this maneuver?



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Yes Larry, the maneuver you described is "Slow

Flight".  It is part of the Rec and Private flight

tests here in Canada as well.  We don't typically make

360 deg turns but we do have to make at least one

turn.  The point is so that you can recognize the

flight characteristics of the aircraft near the stall

condition



Doug MacDonald

Just finished my Priv Lic off

Canadian Ultralight Instructor

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada 

__________________________________________________

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

In a message dated 1/7/2007 8:52:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  larry(at)macsmachine.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi    guys,

I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating    

proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting    

20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above    

stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding    

altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with    

no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at    

4000 feet.  I've had to do this thing several times the last couple    of 

years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a    

C-172.  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add    an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you    

only get a feel for at the time it counts.



Does anyone have the    name of this maneuver?



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at    www.macsmachine.com



	


 

  

  [quote][b]

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Larry,

  

 I have never heard of that for a BFR requirement, or any flight test.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX/912S/100hrs

 do not archive

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/7/2007 8:52:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  larry(at)macsmachine.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi    guys,

I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating    

proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting    

20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above    

stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding    

altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with    

no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at    

4000 feet.  I've had to do this thing several times the last couple    of 

years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a    

C-172.  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add    an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you    

only get a feel for at the time it counts.



Does anyone have the    name of this maneuver?



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at    www.macsmachine.com

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Down on the Gulf Coast it's called the "Let's see  if Gomer over-controls and stalls before he sees it coming on" manuver.  

  

 My last BFR if had to fly a C-172 in straight  flight and turns as directed by the instructor while keeping the stall horn  blowing the whole time. It was fun. Then again we had a couple thousand  feet AGL.

  

 Ed

 Do Not Archive

  

 Do Not move the yoke abruptly near stall  speed

 [quote]   ---

sperry50(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

I have had to do that here in sunny Florida with the instructor all the while barking orders or questions. I guess her plan is to see if I am easily distracted!  

   

Skip Perry – Ft. Myers  

   

Do  Not Archive  

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II

 Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proficiency maneuver?  

  

     

Down on the Gulf  Coast it's called the "Let's see if Gomer over-controls and stalls before he sees it coming on" manuver.   

    

   

    

My last BFR if had to fly a C-172 in straight flight and turns as directed by the instructor while keeping the stall horn blowing the whole time. It was fun. Then again we had a couple thousand feet AGL.  

    

   

    

Ed  

    

Do Not Archive  

    

   

    

Do Not move the yoke abruptly near stall speed  

  [quote]    

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

I did the 360 in reasonably still air and also in high winds at 5000' when I

was training.  The hardest part was the plane was actually going backwards

head on to the wind.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Proficiency maneuver?

Larry,



I just had transition training / flight review, from C172 to PA28-140 did the Slow Flight turns you speak of.  After it was all over and I passed the CFII asked what the Piper flew like, I told him it flew just like an airplane.  I was really thinking it would be a lot different flying the low wing but it really wasn't.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, yes slow flight was and is checked during BFR's, You got  me distracted by saying standing on your tail.

 Sorry

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

 In a message dated 1/7/2007 10:10:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 	  Quote: 	
		      Yes Larry, the maneuver you described is "Slow

 Flight".  It is    part of the Rec and Private flight

 tests here in Canada as well.     	


 
	


  

  [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Hi Larry,



Slow flight is a good test of a pilot's skills.  I disagree with you 

that practicing this while solo is a waste of time.  The point is to 

learn to control the speed (primarily with trim, but also with 

elevator) and altitude (with throttle) while maintaining a given 

altitude.  The twist of doing a climbing turn or similar stuff is a 

standard instrument training exercise but still a fine exercise to 

perform solo.  The point is to control the flight of the plane, not 

to get used to particular throttle settings or control pressures.



I have flown dual with perhaps several dozen instructors and every 

one had me do slow flight in one form or another.  This is not limited to BFRs.



The only problem with doing these things solo is you need to avoid 

aluminum clouds, so having a check pilot to look for traffic is a good idea.



Paul

XL fuselage

At 05:49 PM 1/7/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something 

you only get a feel for at the time it counts.


	


-

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Minimum controllable airspeed?

 	  Quote: 	
		     

	
In a message dated 1/7/2007 8:52:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi   guys,

I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating   

proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting   

20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above   

stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding   

altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with   

no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at   

4000 feet.  I've had to do this thing several times the last couple   of 

years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a   

C-172.  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add   an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you   

only get a feel for at the time it counts.



Does anyone have the   name of this maneuver?



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at   www.macsmachine.com



	


 

  





 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

flydad57(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

During my flight training this maneuver was repeated often.  It is  certainly one of the maneuvers in the "slow flight" regime, more commonly  known (if allowed to progress) as a power-on stall.  This is practiced  in order to simulate take off attitude (although the 20 degrees of flap is  excessive) and allow the student to recognize the onset of the stall.

  

 The power-off stall (reduce power, maintain altitude with increasing stick  pressure until the stall occurs) is used to simulate the landing configuration  in order to recognize an incipient stall during an approach.

  

 In my recent BFR, taken in a Cub, I had to simulate the take off  attitude with full power, hold the incipient stall point while doing slow turns  in both directions, then progress through the actual stall to demonstrate the  recovery.  Lots of fun!!  We did it several times, just for fun.

  

 Bob Taylor

Wadsworth, Ohio

 [quote]   ---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

list,



a sign of a proficiant pilot is their capability to "pilot the aircraft". that means knowing how th eplane will react at any given speed.  It is recommended by various instructors, AOPA and EAA to practice slow flying skils since, knowing where the stalls occur at any speed could save a life, and improve manauvering skills.

Where a majority of accidents occur is pilots landing or taking off and stalling the plane.  



Once in a while as habit, I take the plane to 2500 ft, and practice stalls, turn about points, slow flight at every flap setting. emergency engine out procedures, etc. The stall speed changes with weight, so I practice with full fuel and at gross weight , and at half weight( half fuel, pilot only).   Not doing so on a regualr basis would mean I am short changing myself as a pilot.



If you consider it a waste of time, put it on a plaque in your plane, so the passenger knows you think emergency flights skills practiced are a waste of time.  Make sure you also have a good life insurance policy as well. Is that safe flying? I don't know.



Juan



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Proficiency maneuver?

Slow Flight, Minimum Maneuver Speed...



It is designed to practice flight in the pattern you need to be able to do it at all possible weights the aircraft can carry.



The inability to make the transition from doing this with just the pilot and instructor to doing it with a loaded four seat aircraft has been the cause of MANY accidents among new pilots. 



 	  larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: 	
		  Hi guys,

I was practicing a maneuver that seems to be popular in demonstrating 

proficiency during a BFR or an aircraft check-flight. This is getting 

20-degree flaps, maximum nose up under power, slowing to just above 

stall, while doing a 360-degree turn seemingly on the tail and holding 

altitude to within 100 feet. The 601HDS wants to keep climbing, but with 

no flaps to use and some awkward wobbling, I managed to repeat it at 

4000 feet.  I've had to do this thing several times the last couple of 

years to qualify in a Piper Warrior, complete a BFR in a C-150 and a 

C-172.  Practicing it alone is hardly worthwhile because when you add an 

instructor the character of the effort changes, so it is something you 

only get a feel for at the time it counts.



Does anyone have the name of this maneuver?



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

billmileski

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Ledyard, CT

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Proficiency maneuver?

This is a snip from the private pilot practical test standards, which are used during our practical check rides. Doc is at this link:



http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14A.pdf



VIII. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS

A. TASK: MANEUVERING DURING SLOW FLIGHT (AMEL and AMES)

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to maneuvering during

slow flight.

2. Selects an entry altitude that will allow the task to be completed no

lower than 3,000 feet (920 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes and maintains an airspeed at which any further increase

in angle of attack, increase in load factor, or reduction in power,

would result in an immediate stall.

4. Accomplishes coordinated straight-and-level flight, turns, climbs, and

descents with landing gear and flap configurations specified by the

examiner.

5. Divides attention between airplane control and orientation.

6. Maintains the specified altitude, Â±100 feet (30 meters); specified

heading, Â±10Â°; airspeed, +10/âˆ’0 knots and specified angle of bank,

Â±10Â°.



Bill Mileski

701/912S/70hrs

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Proficiency maneuver?

Typically the maneuver you describe is not done at full power.  If you were  at minimum speed, standing on the tail and not climbing even tho' you were at full power, you were indeed on the ragged edge of a power on stall.  I hope you are familiar with spin recovery as uncoordinated control inputs in such an attitude can quickly snap you on your back and start a spin.



To practice flght at MCA, I prefer to have a pilot reduce power and increase backpressure to 1.) hold altitude and 2.) Reduce airspeed to just above the stall.  When the airspeed is reduced to minimum, add just enough power to hold altitude.  From this point, I ask them to demonstrate shallow turns left and right while holding altitude (usually some power will have to be added.)  I also ask them to demonstrate climbs (add power) and descents (reduce power)  all while maintaining the target airspeed.    I also have them add flaps to the mix.  Some pilots are surprised to find that a 172 will still climb (albeit slowly) with 40Â° of flaps extended.  



I believe what I've described above will help a pilot develop a feel for how their plane behaves at minimum speed.  You can practice such maneuvers in any aircraft.....just do it at a safe altitude.



Tim Juhl

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Larry-

    Sounds like either a Chandelle or an accelerated stall. Either way, a 

good maneuver to keep you on your toes. Too much back pressure and you go 

into a spin, kick rudder at the stall point and you snap roll.

    Sounds like you have a good CFI.

    Remember, if you don't come out of a BFR with your shirt sticking to 

your back, you didn't get your money's worth!

Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: Proficiency maneuver?

Been there done that etc. etc.  Lots of fun.



Now I fly floats and don't think that far out on the envelope is wise... Not

without at least 5000' under my precious a$$!



It's amazing how much throttle you can give a 172 and still have it descend

under control



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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