Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

I have just about decided to use Evans Coolant instead of putting another gauge on my panel to monitor temp of the 50/50 mix on our 912ULS.



I seem to remember reading somewhere that I should use another radiator cap with a different pressure setting.  Can someone point me to that thread?



Thanks,



Tommy Walker in Alabama

N8701 90%

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

The spec. for the higher pressure radiator cap (1.2 bar vs .9 bar) is 

in same service bulletin as the Evans coolant.... SB-912-043



Thom in Buffalo

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

hdwysong(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Howdy Tommy,



No need for a new cap, just a new sticker for your old/stock cap that says you're running Evans (... and to remind anyone working on your airplane NOT to add water to the system).  Regarding the cap, Evans says you can go to a zero-pressure cap if using their fluid.  However, Rotax prefers (per the article below) that you continue to operate the engine under pressure with the original cap. 



Here's a preview link to a Sport Pilot article written by Lockwood that explains all of the details.  The page you'll be taken to gives the direct URL to the article PDF or you can click the tinyurl link instead.  The article tells you where to get the $0.50 sticker, too. 



http://preview.tinyurl.com/y56tml



Hope this helps!



D



---------------------------

On 1/13/07,  RotaxEngines-List Digest Server <rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:[quote] Time: 08:44:05 AM PST US

Subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker(at)cableone.net (twalker(at)cableone.net)>

I have just about decided to use Evans Coolant instead of putting another gauge 

on my panel to monitor temp of the 50/50 mix on our 912ULS.



I seem to remember reading somewhere that I should use another radiator cap with

a different pressure setting.  Can someone point me to that thread? 



Thanks,



Tommy Walker in Alabama

N8701 90%

[b]

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hello D



"Evans says you can go to a zero-pressure cap if using their fluid."



Sometimes you need to know the whole story. It is true Evans says you can

run a zero pressure cap, but they also tell you that the cap needs to be

on the suction side of the pump. Rotax is not on the suction side. They

also want you to help out with the lower thermal conductivity of their

fluid compared to 50/50 by increasing pump volume or increase surface area

of radiator, and want not too much restriction in the radiator itself.



This is from the mouth of their research guy.



I am going to run a .9 on my 914.



Ron P.

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

HI All,



I had Evans in my last 912s and I liked it. I really did not notice any temp. change. I just put Evans in my new Flight Desin CT. I did a double flush and then put in the Evans NPG+ and everything seems to be good. I have Evans in my Honda Goldwing, too. In 3 years I have never had any issues and have been happy with their product. I use the original cap when a have switched over and just put the Evans sticker on the cap.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Thanks all, that's a lot of good information.  I have the .9 bar cap and I'm going to use it.  



This just occurred to me.  Will the Evans coolant boil?  I have my expansion tank in line, but am not sure if it will be needed.



Thanks,



Tommy Walker in Alabama

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Tommy,



It should not boil. I have never had a problem. The boiling temp. is 375F. If your coolant gets that hot you have much bigger issues to worry about.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Tommy Walker a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks all, that's a lot of good information.  I have the .9 bar cap and I'm going to use it.  



 This just occurred to me.  Will the Evans coolant boil?  I have my expansion tank in line, but am not sure if it will be needed.



   


	


Tommy,



It won't boil, but it will certainly expand.

What advantages do you actually see in the use of the Evans coolant 

against 50/50 mix ?



Regards,

Gilles Thesee

Grenoble, France

http://contrails.free.fr

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Gilles,



Unless I misunderstood the following, I think that I am required to either switch to Evans, or install a water temperature gauge in order to keep using 50/50 mix of water and glyco antifreeze.  



Please see below.  I have the entire document if you would like me to forward it to you.  Maybe I just misread it?



My original post regarding this notes that I am considering the switch because i didn't want to put another gauge in my panel.



Release of REVISED MANDATORY Rotax Service Bulletins For Rotax 912 & 914 Engines



"...Understanding the benefits provided by conventional water - glycol coolant in some applications, Rotax has now released a new revision of Service Bulletin SB-912-043 / SB-914-029.  With the release Service Bulletin SB-912-043 R2 / SB-914-029 R2, use of conventional 50/50 water - glycol coolant is once again allowed, provided certain conditions can be met. 



In order for a 912 or 914 series engine to be safely operated with conventional water - glycol coolant, SB-912-043 R2 / SB-914-029 R2 mandates that both cylinder head temperatures AND coolant exit temperature must be monitored at all times...."



 	  Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno wrote: 	
		  Tommy Walker a ï¿½crit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks all, that's a lot of good information.  I have the .9 bar cap and I'm going to use it.  



 This just occurred to me.  Will the Evans coolant boil?  I have my expansion tank in line, but am not sure if it will be needed.



   



	


Tommy,



It won't boil, but it will certainly expand.

What advantages do you actually see in the use of the Evans coolant 

against 50/50 mix ?



Regards,

Gilles Thesee

Grenoble, France

http://contrails.free.fr

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Tommy,

  

 I believe you are right, I used the standard cap, labeled it with the Evans  label and yes you still need the overflow bottle for expansion if nothing  else.

  

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/13/2007 10:52:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  twalker(at)cableone.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Gilles,

Unless I misunderstood the following, I think that I am    required to either switch to Evans, or install a water temperature gauge in    order to keep using 50/50 mix of water and glyco antifreeze.     



Please see below.  I have the entire document if you would like    me to forward it to you.  Maybe I just misread it?

	
  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 	
  

  [quote][b]

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

 	  Quote: 	
		    I think that I am required to either switch to Evans, or install a water temperature gauge in order to keep using 50/50 mix of water and glyco antifreeze.  

   


	


Tommy,



You read the Rotax SB right.

As you may have understood from my message or website, I'm not a great 

advocate of Evans 

As William pointed out, there is a third means of complying, that is 

measuring the coolant temp, and marking the CHT gauge accordingly.



Regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

I agree with Giles'  interpretation of SB-912-043 R2. Although our CHT 

has never been above 225F we are obligated to comply with this SB. I do 

not like the idea of having a non-standard coolant when I am on 

cross-country flights. I want to be able to add standard ethylene 

glycol coolant if needed wherever I am. Since we do not have an 

overheating problem, we are going to stay with the ethylene glycol, 

change to the 1.2 BAR cap, and add the water temperature gauge. Flying 

under an experimental airworthiness certificate does not strictly 

require conformance but our SLSA airworthiness certificate requires us 

to conform to all SBs or risk losing the SLSA a/w certificate. Besides, 

I think Rotax knows what they are talking about, notwithstanding Phil 

Lockwood's interpretation. Note also that the latest version of this SB 

is dated well over a year after Phil Lockwood's article published in 

Jan 2005.



Thom in Buffalo

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

hdwysong(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Thanks for the background info on the 'zero-pressure' cap, Ron.  We're running the stock cap (with new/improved sticker) on our 914, too.  No problems thus far.

 

D

[quote] Time: 11:29:30 AM PST US

Subject: Re: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

From: <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>



Hello D



"Evans says you can go to a zero-pressure cap if using their fluid." 



Sometimes you need to know the whole story. It is true Evans says you can

run a zero pressure cap, but they also tell you that the cap needs to be

on the suction side of the pump. Rotax is not on the suction side. They 

also want you to help out with the lower thermal conductivity of their

fluid compared to 50/50 by increasing pump volume or increase surface area

of radiator, and want not too much restriction in the radiator itself. 



This is from the mouth of their research guy.



I am going to run a .9 on my 914.



Ron P.

[b]

bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

BE CAREFUL FLYING WITH THE EVANS IN HOT WEATHER!!!!



My Dad and I put it in our StingSport w/912s before flying to Osh last year

and experienced vapor lock (yes with AvGas) in 88 degree weather in approx

8000 ft density altitude....



The Evans will run approx 35-50+ degrees hotter, which will not harm the

engine, but in our case raised the under cowl temps enough to begin to boil

the fuel in the lines!....



After much fiddling, we put the regular coolant back in the next morning and

pressed on with no problems....



Perhaps our Sting does not have proper baffling to keep the under-cowl temps

down, but in our case the change to Evans almost proved deadly.....



-Bruce



--

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Guys,



I have run Evans NPG+ in my last 912s (3 years) and in my current one  (Flight Design CT)and have not experienced these kind of temp. jumps. I live in Arizona. Right now I am trying to bring my temps. up. I have a piece of 2" metal tape across my radiator/oil cooler. My oil temps are still only 160F and my cyl. head temps are running 210-220F I put 1" more tape on and my oil temp was 210F and my cyl. head temps were 250 at WOT. Back off on the throttle and the cyl. head temps came back to 220F. My Honda Goldwing motorcycle has run Evans for two years with out any problems. My system also does not build up the internal pressures that running 50-50 does either. Less wear and tear on hoses and seals. If you read Evans literature they say you should not see any big temp changes, but possibly a very minor one.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

john beirne

Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

While not available on this side of the pond (at least I have never seen it) this coolant comes to the attention of the FAA in the most recent Bi-Weekly AD listing,

Incidentally this AD refers to The Stemme S10-VT Motor glider and not to Rotax engines 



Extract from FAA Bi-Weekly 2007-02

â€œThe mandatory continuing airworthiness information (MCAI) states that:

During certification works it was found that the cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ is flammable. The liquid cooling circuit of the Stemme S10-VT is not designed to be filled with a flammable liquid without prior modifications. For that reason, this Emergency AD requires the replacement of the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid. In addition, the operation limit of the cylinder head temperature must be temporary changed to 120ÂºC / 248ÂºF.

Actions and Compliance

(e) Prior to further flight as of January 29, 2007 (the effective date of this AD), unless already done, do the following actions.

(1) Replace the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid in accordance with the instructions of Stemme F&D Service Bulletin A31-10-076 Am. Index: 01.a, dated October 9, 2006â€

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Everyone,



I read John's post. While it is correct, there is something else to consider. First I am a 27 year Firefighter and a Hazardous Material Technician. 

Evans will burn, but so will others if it gets hot enough. Just about anything will burn if it gets hot enough. Other coolants will burn and so will the oil in your engine and the fuel and the hoses and the wire insulation and your planes body.

Then how do we put in perspective the Evans burning issue? Well if it gets to that point then all the other things in the area will be on fire and you have much bigger problems than worrying about your coolant catching fire. All the other things under your cowling burn at lower temps. and could be the cause of the fire on top of burning. So by the time Evans is ever a factor you will have far greater problems.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Roger,



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well if it gets to that point then all the other things in the area will be on fire and you have much bigger problems than worrying about your coolant catching fire. All the other things under your cowling burn at lower temps. and could be the cause of the fire on top of burning. So by the time Evans is ever a factor you will have far greater problems.

   


	


What if a tiny leaks develops and sprays pure propylene glycol (an 

alcohol) onto your red hot turbo housing ? The coolant pressure is about 

1.2 bar.

In my opinion, the Evans will instantaneously be a factor, and things 

may quickly start deteriorating.



On of us honorable listers is setting up a hair-raising experiment to 

determine if there is a difference between the Evans and the 50/50 mix.

His findings may prove interesting.



Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hello Roger



As far as Evans burning, comprimise the cooling plumbing and spray it on

the turbo of a 914 and the order can be reversed.



"how do we put in perspective the Evans burning issue? Well if it gets to

that point then all the other things in the area will be on fire and you

have much bigger problems than worrying about your coolant catching fire.

All the other things under your cowling burn at lower temps. and could be

the cause of the fire on top of burning."



I plan to test burn some Evans and try spraying it on the Turbo of my

Volvo Wagon to see just how easily it ignites.



Ron P.

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I plan to test burn some Evans and try spraying it on the Turbo of my

 Volvo Wagon to see just how easily it ignites.



   


	


You mean, the Volvo ?

Just joking,

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum