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Lesson Learned Hand prop

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

David,



Great report and luckily you are ok .

YES !! Always treat props as live, as you found out a loose ground 

connection is all it takes.

I routinely hand prop a 582 and 503  near daily .

I think most engines can be hand proped.

One bonus of a 2 stroke on a Kitfox is that you can prop from left side 

holding onto door frame or ona 912 from the right side with full access to 

the controls.



Dave

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

When working on GA engines I always use a clip lead to ground the p-terminal

right on the mag.  With the Rotax 582 in my own plane I always treat it as

if it was primed to go. So far I've been lucky with that.  One idea would be

to remove the spark plug leads.



Noel



[quote] --

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

Michel,



Ahh  the Jab is CDI  and not magneto .



Rotax are CDI  but with the gear box you get 2.2 to 3.to 1 ratios to help

spin the crankshaft that much faster.

Ducati ignition needs about 270 to 300 rpm to actually be able to get the

any spark at all.  I would assume the Jab is simular.

That being said the point igntion rotax 2 strokes will fire easier than the

CDI igntion.



Regardless,  Hand proping can be dangerous but sometimes essential.  On 2

strokes I always turn the prop at least 5 turns to loosen up the gear box

oil. This really helps save the battery.  I also check mags on startup , run

up and shutdown.

Dave

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:59 PM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ahh  the Jab is CDI  and not magneto .


	


Er ... no Dave. I think I have coils and not capacitors. But I 

understand that it has to spin 300 RPM to create a spark at the plug. 

Please note that I don't know much about engines and the little I know 

is about marine diesels, an entirely different ball game.



I do spin the prop by hand, at each preflight. I do it in the hangar, 

after checking oil and gascolator. I hand turn the prop 5 to 10 times, 

feeling the compression and listening for telltale breathing sound, or 

unusual noise. In the winter, I do it with the choke open. It brings 

fuel in the carb, which makes starting easier. Mind you, all this is 

what I was told to do by my Jabiru dealer and since he still has all 

his fingers, I assume it's safe. 



Cheers,

Michel

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

CDI or not before you turn over a prop by hand check to make sure the mag

switches are off.  If you have the mag switches on your ignition key just

put it in your pocket.  Stranger things have happened.



My 20 YO., V4, 90 horse outboard is supposed  to have CDI on it and I've

started it many times with a short piece of cord wrapped around the top

flywheel.  Most of the time it starts before I've pulled the chord

completely through it's length.



I don't want any one to end up with the nickname "Lefty"



Noel



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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

wliles(at)bayou.com
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

Noel removing the spark plug leads would certainly keep the engine from 

starting, however, the Ducati ignition modules can be ruined if they get 

enough charge and can't discharge through the plugs.  Better to unplug 

the modules from the engine coil.



Jerry Liles



Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



When working on GA engines I always use a clip lead to ground the p-terminal

right on the mag.  With the Rotax 582 in my own plane I always treat it as

if it was primed to go. So far I've been lucky with that.  One idea would be

to remove the spark plug leads.



Noel

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

Sounds logical... Thanks



The main thing is to be careful....  You don't want to be the one that has

an engine start unexpectedly.



Noel



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Aerocet 1100 Floats

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 CDI or not before you turn over a prop by hand check to make sure the mag

 switches are off. 

Yep! And that's why I wrote that I hand prop in the hangar, Noel, prior to enter or move the plane; and just after the oil and gascolator check. It's like a ritual. For the oil, I don't even need to wipe the dipstick; for the gascolator, if any water or dirt is there, it will come out first as it would have settled at the bottom.
	




Cheers,

Michel

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Lesson Learned Hand prop

I do a post flight inspection... I consider that to be the important one.

If there are any little things about the plane that I want to check on it

will be fresh in my mind.  



Then I trailer the plane home and put it in my garage/workshop and now

hangar.  Before the next fight I will check everything.  All hoses, tubes,

filters ( gascolator)  and of course wiring.



When I go to fly I will do a whole walk around/ inspection again.  Last year

I found on the final inspection that the rudder had been bent.. It took a

day to get it ready to fly again.



Noel



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