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Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2
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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hello Gilles



 	  Quote: 	
		  > I plan to test burn some Evans and try spraying it on the Turbo of my

> Volvo Wagon to see just how easily it ignites.


	




 	  Quote: 	
		   You mean, the Volvo ?


	


I didn't mean the Volvo, but you have now given me new ideas! I will

conduct testing on my Volvo in my garage, and collect on both Auto and

Home Owners Insurance.



What's your address, I am pretty certain the insurance company will want

it!



DO NOT ARCHIVE



Sincerely

Ron Parigoris

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Lees Correct,



 Even water burns ..... Hold out your hand 



Mark Vaughn



Lee writes

 Just about anything  will burn if it gets hot enough.



 Other coolants will burn and so will the oil in

your engine and the fuel and the hoses and the wire insulation and your 

planes

body.

Then how do we put in perspective the Evans burning issue? Well if it 

gets to

that point then all the other things in the area will be on fire and 

you have

much bigger problems than worrying about your coolant catching fire. 

All the

other things under your cowling burn at lower temps. and could be the 

cause of

the fire on top of burning. So by the time Evans is ever a factor you 

will have

far greater problems.



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90191#90191





________________________________________________________________________

across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Guys,



Light a fire and throw Evans on it. It will put the fire out. It has to get hot enough first. A Rotax is not a Turbo Volvo. Two different animals. The ethylene glycol in 50/50 will burn in a car fire. I know I have put enough of them out, but the fire was very hot with other materials involved. The water evaps and leaves behind the ethylene glycol. I will worry about other things burning long before I worry about the Evans. Fires in engines usually start from fuel leaks or electrical shorts. That makes up probably 98% of all engine fires. Even oil rarley causes a fire by itself, it usually smokes you out.

Without testing, I'm not sure your turbo will start it burning? Maybe? You will have to heat it past its auto ignition temp.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Roger,



 	  Quote: 	
		   Light a fire and throw Evans on it. It will put the fire out.


	


Are you really sure on that one ? Of course there have been cases when 

throwing fuel on a fire put it out, but it rarely really happens.

Fuel, oil, alcohols all are flammable.



Here are some propylene glycol properties (Evans NPG) :

"Flash point: 99°C c.c.; 107°C o.c.

Auto-ignition temperature: 371°C

Explosive limits, vol% in air: 2.6-12.6"

 	  Quote: 	
		   It has to get hot enough first. A Rotax is not a Turbo Volvo.


	


The Rotax turbo is an Garret auto turbo, a very common one.

 	  Quote: 	
		    Two different animals. The ethylene glycol in 50/50 will burn in a car fire. I know I have put enough of them out, but the fire was very hot with other materials involved. The water evaps and leaves behind the ethylene glycol. I will worry about other things burning long before I worry about the Evans. Fires in engines usually start from fuel leaks or electrical shorts. That makes up probably 98% of all engine fires. Even oil rarley causes a fire by itself, it usually smokes you out.

 Without testing, I'm not sure your turbo will start it burning? Maybe? You will have to heat it past its auto ignition temp.

   

Fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid, alcohol leaks and an ignition source.
	


The Rotax turbo gets dull red when it use. That is about 700-800°C, 

twice the autoignition temperature of the Evans.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Ron's experiment.

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Guys,



While your testing flamable items in your engine compartment, try these on that hot turbo.



Evans auto ignition temp. of 371c is about 700F.

Flash point is approximately 210F and a fire point would be about 75F more, give or take a couple of degrees.

Evans won't start a fire by itself and will burn when enough heat is added or involved in a fire. 

Paper burns at 451F.



Rubber parts, depending on the product about 451F to 500F fire point, (approximate) This includes all your hoses and wire insulation. Electrical shorts are Number 1 for causing engine fires or anything too close to the exhaust manifold.



Mobile 1 MX4T oil (a.k.a. Racing 4T) flash point is 457F and fire point is approximately 532F



So while your tossing Evans on your hot turbo toss other engine parts on it too and they will catch fire long before Evans does. My exhaust temps. are about 1420F, but I'm not going to toss out all the hoses, wiring, fuel or coolant because my exhaust manifold is that hot. Have you put all your fuel hoses in stainless steel to keep them from splitting, but wait the fittings might leak and drip raw fuel.

There are several other things that will start an engine fire before a coolant leak, but we aren't getting rid of them. You can carry this arguement out in any direction, but no one is totally fire proofing their engines or fuselages.



I am not trying to give anyone a hard time, but only show how many things will burn in an engine compartment and at much lower temps. and the many ways that engine fires start. Coolant fires are way down on fire cause list in the fire service. Sure coolant will burn, but it's not on top of the list. I will absolutely make sure I take measures to minimize coolant leaks, but I will take measures to reduce my chance of any engine fire by good maintenance and inspections and not scrimping on parts replacement.



Making plans on good solid intel and common sense is a key to continued success

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: SB-912-043-R2

Its been quite awhile since the service bulletin on coolant temperature

was issued.



Has anyone actually installed a coolant temp probe? If so, did you choose

a hole in the expansion tank or a tee into the line to the radiator from

the tank.  I have not seen anyone offer a standard solution for us poor

homebuilders!

_________________
Ira N224XS

gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Ira--

   I installed a temp guage on my 912s.  Installed a "T"  near the expansion tank for the probe.

 I'm seeing about 165 degrees F.  I'm running a  50/50 mix.

  

 George May

 601XL 912s



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

 From: ira.rampil(at)gmail.com

 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:41:52 -0800

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>

 

 Its been quite awhile since the service bulletin on coolant temperature

 was issued.

 

 Has anyone actually installed a coolant temp probe? If so, did you choose

 a hole in the expansion tank or a tee into the line to the radiator from

 the tank. I have not seen anyone offer a standard solution for us poor

 homebuilders!

 

 --------

 Ira N224XS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157089#157089

 

&==============
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Start sharing!  [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi! Ira

Thanks to Europa Builder Ivor Phillips I have an aluminium pipe insert

in the header tank exit (to cooler ..hottest position) into which I have

a temp sensor fitted.  If standard antifreeze/water 50/50 mix is used

this is mandatory for the PFA.

Bob Harrison G-PTAG 914 Conversion from Jab 3300.



--

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 649

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Ira,



Grand Rapids Technology stocks an aluminum pipe with two tapped openings just for this purpose.  It installs in the hose leading from the expansion tank to the radiator.  I think it's about $35. We're setting it up with temp and pressure.



Jim & Heather Butcher

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

George,



When your coolant temp is reading 165F, what are the CHTs reading?



Thom Riddle

Allegro 2000

912UL

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Thom--

   Actually I was up today and checked the water temp.  It was running about 147--150. Outside air temps were in the 30's.  My CHT probes don't track equally, but they are consistent. One seems to run consistently high. I've switched them and the high one still reads high, so it is the probe. Anyway , one reads in the mid  to high 1300s  and the other in the mid to high 1400s

 

George May

601XL 912s  

 

do not archive> From: riddletr(at)gmail.com> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:12:30 -0500> > 

_________________________________________________________________

Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi George,



I think the numbers you cited are EGT numbers, not CHT.

CHTs of 1300 would leave your engine block a molten slag.



CHT numbers should be below 250F, and the coolant temp must be

below 248F.

_________________
Ira N224XS

gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Ira--

    Of course you are right----a senior moment there.

  

 George

  

 do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

 From: ira.rampil(at)gmail.com

 Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:41:35 -0800

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>

 

 Hi George,

 

 I think the numbers you cited are EGT numbers, not CHT.

 CHTs of 1300 would leave your engine block a molten slag.

 

 CHT numbers should be below 250F, and the coolant temp must be

 below 248F.

 

 --------

 Ira N224XS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157331#157331

 

 

 

 

 

========================> 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 


	


Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. Start now!  [quote][b]

Horizonspace(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

In a message dated 1/9/2008 7:34:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,  gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Ira--

  I installed a temp guage on my 912s.  Installed a    "T"  near the expansion tank for the probe.

I'm seeing about 165    degrees F.  I'm running a  50/50 mix.

 

George    May

601XL 912s 	
 George,

  

 Where did you get your "T"?  Is it custom or is it from a particular  vendor?

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 	


Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

I believe I purchased it from Grand Rapids. It's an aluminum coupler with a threaded insert welded on for the temp probe. I checked their website but did not see it there. The best thing to do is to call them. The number on their website is 616-245-7700. I think it was about $35.

  

 George May

 601XL 912s

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: Horizonspace(at)aol.com

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:12:25 -0500

Subject: Re: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com



  In a message dated 1/9/2008 7:34:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Ira--

  I installed a temp guage on my 912s.  Installed a "T"  near the expansion tank for the probe.

I'm seeing about 165 degrees F.  I'm running a  50/50 mix.

 

George May

601XL 912s 	
 George,

  

 Where did you get your "T"?  Is it custom or is it from a particular vendor?

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 	


   Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. Start now!  [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Hi Jim,



I could not find the T adapter on the GRT website, so I called

Lockwood.  They have one for $44 with the transducer so I ordered 

it.  I'll report back when it arrives.

_________________
Ira N224XS

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

I just called GRT and ordered an adaptor, $30. I'll report back too.



Kevin



rampil wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Jim,



 I could not find the T adapter on the GRT website, so I called

 Lockwood.  They have one for $44 with the transducer so I ordered 

 it.  I'll report back when it arrives.



 --------

 Ira N224XS





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157425#157425

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Check you local radiator shop and see if they will make the adapter. That is what I did for my truck. It never crossed my mind to try to find a pre-made part. a good shop will have the beader and Al, brass, and steel tubing. You will need to provide the fitting if it is not 1/8" pipe.

 Paul

 ==========

 At 05:49 AM 1/11/2008, you wrote:

 [quote]I believe I purchased it from Grand Rapids. It's an aluminum coupler with a threaded insert welded on for the temp probe. I checked their website but did not see it there. The best thing to do is to call them. The number on their website is 616-245-7700. I think it was about $35.

  

 George May

 601XL 912s



 

    From: Horizonspace(at)aol.com

  Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:12:25 -0500

  Subject: Re: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

  To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com



  In a message dated 1/9/2008 7:34:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com writes:

   Ira--

    I installed a temp guage on my 912s.  Installed a "T"  near the expansion tank for the probe.

  I'm seeing about 165 degrees F.  I'm running a  50/50 mix.

   

  George May

  601XL 912s



   George,

   

  Where did you get your "T"?  Is it custom or is it from a particular vendor?

  

   



  



 

   Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 



  	  Quote: 	
		  

ist"

target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List



p://forums.matronics.com



blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[/b] 	
 

  Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™.  Start now! 

 [b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

Rotaxers,

I too have ordered a coolant temperature adaptor from Grand Rapids.  I'll let you know when it arrives and post pics on my build web site.



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done.  Baggage bay in.  Flaps & Main Gear complete.  Mod 72 complete.  Instrument panel complete, except for testing.  Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time).  Airmaster Prop installed.  Electrical complete, except for testing.  Fuel system complete except for testing.  Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.  Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05.  Seat arrived from Oregon Aero.  E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



On Jan 10, 2008, at 7:06 AM, h&amp;jeuropa wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net (butcher43(at)att.net)>

Ira,

Grand Rapids Technology stocks an aluminum pipe with two tapped openings just for this purpose.  It installs in the hose leading from the expansion tank to the radiator.  I think it's about $35. We're setting it up with temp and pressure.

Jim & Heather Butcher

	




 



 



 [quote][b]

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Evans Coolant and SB-912-043-R2

I have been running EvansÂ  coolant for over 100 hours on my 701 here in the Arizona desert heat, with summer temperatures of well over 100 degrees. I have had no problems with any overheating. I agree 100 % with Roger Lee (no relative of mine) about the Evans coolant. We do live within 20 miles of each other though. I personally would not use anything else in my 912uls but Evans. I would not take a chance of having the hot spots (steam pockets) that Rotax is concerned about with regular coolant. The engine is just too expensive to mess with. If they think it is the thing to use, then I am going to use it! If you Google the Evans site and read their literature, you will know precisely what Rotax is concerned about. The hot spots in the cylinder heads can become steam pockets and steam does not cool very well at all. They can and will occur in the hot spots of your engine under heavy load and then dissipate into the surrounding coolant without you even knowing they have happened! If this happens you can very easily destroy the temper of metal in the heads, which needless to say is not good. 

Should you ever have to add water in case of leak on a cross country, you can  add water with no problem. Of course you will destroy the high boiling point of the Evans coolant and will end up with the boiling point of a 50-50 coolant mixture. I personally carry an extra pint of Evans with me. In two years and 150 hours I have never had to add one drop.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

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