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Phase I flight area
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bobbyhester(at)charter.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

How big of an area have you guys gotten for your phase I flight area?

Advisory Circular says 25 statute mile radius from base airport.



-- 

Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY

Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

Usually, that's a negotiated topic between you and your DAR. It depends on

the cruising speed of your airplane. With our Glasairs we normally want at

least 50 miles or we'll be making turns every 5 minutes.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

We were able to get a 100nm test area.

---

rv6(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

Luckily, in Oklahoma we have a senator who is an RV8 pilot and he negotiated

the whole state  as the test area excluding specific controlled airspace.  I

used the same DAR and got the same thing.



Jerry Calvert

Ednond Ok

N296JC

RV6

---

kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

I drew out an area on an old sectional and asked the DAR to set it as my 

phase 1 test area.



I explained to him my reasoning for the area:



1) A 25 mile circle would put me over Atlanta/Hartsfield, and neither of us 

wanted that.

2) The area was familiar to me - I knew lots of alternate landing sites.

3) The area had a wide selection of nice paved runways.

4) The area was fairly lightly populated.



He had no problem with my request.



KB



---

luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

My DAR was new and wanted to go by the book which included the very small ~25 mile radius flight test area minus any Class B space. 25 miles East of me would include a lot of Class B airspace.  I took out a sectional  and picked up some key strategic airports NE, N, NW, W, SW and S from my airport to avoid the class B airspace East of me.  The distance from the NE one to the SW one was probably over 100 NM apart.  I then circled within my area where I wanted to do Acro & spins and  another area where I wanted to set up a large triangle for my airspeed calibration runs.  I also pointed out which airports had cheap fuel and the one that had the prop balancing shop & avionics shops.  I also made sure he knew the farthest away one was chosen because it had a large grass strip which I was very familiar with.  In the end, he consented.  There's no way I would have been happy flying off thos  e hour s in any smaller area so I would recommend you try to get what you want.

  

 Lucky

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> 



[quote] --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" 

 

 I drew out an area on an old sectional and asked the DAR to set it as my 

 phase 1 test area. 

 

 I explained to him my reasoning for the area: 

 

 1) A 25 mile circle would put me over Atlanta/Hartsfield, and neither of us 

 wanted that. 

 2) The area was familiar to me - I knew lots of alternate landing sites. 

 3) The area had a wide selection of nice paved runways. 

 4) The area was fairly lightly populated. 

 

 He had no problem with my request. 

 

 KB 

 

 

 

 ---

lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

Depends on the authority area of your DAR or the FSDO you are working with. 

In my case it was not a true circle of a certain size but more defined by 

the area the DAR had authority to deal within.  I think I was more or less 

about 50nm but could not cross into Indiana from Henderson, KY but I could 

cross into some parts of southern Illinois.  Larry in Indiana

---

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

I had an 11-mile square.  It was PLENTY of  space.  Anybody who doesn't like turning shouldn't be building an  RV...  



 do not archive

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

 www.rvproject.com

 [quote]   ---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

At 10:10 AM 1/26/2007, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I had an 11-mile square.  It was PLENTY of space.  Anybody who doesn't like turning shouldn't be building an RV...  

 	


 Got to disagree with that viewpoint Dan.  11 miles where 

 I live doesn't get you to but one other airport.  Save the 11 mile 

 area for an ultralight but an RV needs more room.



 Ron Lee

     [quote][b]

luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

I was just thinking that if you are happy with 11 miles for phase you don't even deserve to have an RV.  I'd think you'd be more happy with the gyrocopter crowd....  

  

 do not archive

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> 

At 10:10 AM 1/26/2007, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I had an 11-mile square.  It was PLENTY of space.  Anybody who doesn't like turning shouldn't be building an RV...  

	


Got to disagree with that viewpoint Dan.  11 miles where 

I live doesn't get you to but one other airport.  Save the 11 mile 

area for an ultralight but an RV needs more room.



Ron Lee

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

To repeat a similar thread from another list ...



Here's something to consider as you barrel away from your home base deep into your flight testing box that's the size of California - how far away from your home base do you want to be if things start going pear-shaped ?



g



 [quote]--

rv9jim(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

Lucky,

        I think that equates to a little over three minutes in one

direction before turning.   3 miles / min rate of travel would make me a

bit dizzy with all the turns.  I hope to get about a 60 or so miles in an

oval (long axis) where I live.  At least that will allow me to do the

testing that will be necessary for my "9-A".  Got a BIG water to my west

and Orlando and its garbage to the East.  So I want to go North and South

and stay clear of the busy areas.



Jim Nelson

RV9-A  FWF

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

At 01:30 PM 1/26/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  To repeat a similar thread from another list ...



Here's something to consider as you barrel away from your home base deep 

into your flight testing box that's the size of California - how far away 

from your home base do you want to be if things start going pear-shaped ?




	


That is why you do enough flying close to home to iron out issues.



Ron Lee

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

Well certainly during initial testing you'll stay near the airport.

But later in flight testing you're going to be working on things like calibrating airspeed or mucking with the cooling system.  Being able to fly straight and level for 20 minutes could make these processes a lot easier than if you can never get settled down cause you're fighting to stay inside the box.



It's a fast airplane.  When I get mine in the air, I'm hoping for a box at least 20 minutes on a side.



-J



On Jan 26, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Gerry Filby wrote:

[quote] To repeat a similar thread from another list ...



Here's something to consider as you barrel away from your home base deep into your flight testing box that's the size of California - how far away from your home base do you want to be if things start going pear-shaped ?



g



 [quote]--

luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

Hey, I'm with you man! That was the final comment my DAR made.  I'd be spending a lot of time turning around over populated areas with his original proposal. I live on the East Coast, sandwiched in between the freakin' DC ADIZ, Atlantic ocean and PHILLY Class B.  Lots of populated areas underneath and airways all around.  It's darn nice to get away from all that while burning those hours off.

  

 lucky

  

 do not archive

  

  he Mat  [quote][b]

dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

True, you should go on a cross-country hike the first several trips, but it 

doesn't take 25 hours to know that everything is or isn't working as it 

should.     Just like any flight, one must exercise appropriate judgment.

---

rv7a(at)prosody.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: Phase I flight area

I wish that I knew more about this before I flew my time off.

My DAR sucked.



Thanks Joe

(at)BFI 420 hours

do not archive

tcervin(at)valkyrie.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

I got a 100 mile circle from my Cleveland FSDO and was  glad I did! My RV6-A was doing 155 Knots at 75% squared...no wheel pants or gear  leg fairings. With 11 miles I would be doing turns around a point!!

                                                                                                                                                                                               Tom in  Ohio                     

 [quote]   ---

Gary.A.Sobek

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

FAA Order 8130.2 is the Order by which the FAA (DAR) are required to use for 

Airworthiness Certification.



As of July 2006, 8130.2F Change 2 is current.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/18b1d64bc8f90136862571d40072d8e1/$FILE/Order%208130F%20with%20chg%202%20incorporated.pdf



(may need to copy paste the link to one line.)



Section 152 on page 160 has the REQUIREMENTS for "FLIGHT TEST AREAS" of 

Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft.



FROM THE ABOVE REVERENCED DOCUMENT:

"a. General. Section 91.319(b) requires that an unproven aircraft be 

assigned to a flight test area.

The assigned test area is prescribed in accordance with § 91.305. The FAA, 

when requested, should

assist applicants in selecting areas that comply with § 91.305. The FAA is 

required to evaluate each

application to determine that the flight test area does not exceed that 

which is reasonably required to accomplish the program. Actions pertaining 

to flight test areas must be coordinated with the nearest office of the Air 

Traffic Service."



Since FAR 91.305 is referenced above, here is what it says:

"Sec. 91.305    Flight test areas.



No person may flight test an aircraft except over open water, or sparsely 

populated areas, having light air traffic."   

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgFAR.nsf/0/45980FAAA23BA129852566CF0067BB5C?OpenDocument



IMHO, if you have a WRITTEN "Flight Test Plan", include the detailed "Flight 

Test Plan" with your application for airworthiness, and it documents the 

need for a test flight area larger than you receive, you need to bring this 

info to the FAA's (or DAR's) attention.

Gary A. Sobek

RVdar.com

"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,

1,976 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA



_________________________________________________________________

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klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Phase I flight area

Well Joe,

  

 Where you able to fly your time off  anyway, regardless of the sucky one? 

 What did you have to do, fly a slight  but constant circle?

  

 [quote]I    wish that I knew more about this before I flew my time off. My DAR    sucked.

Thanks Joe

(at)BFI 420 hours

do not  archive

[b]

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