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jeepacro(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: wings

Has anyone chose to rib stitch instead of riveting the skin to the wing's?  I'm thinking it will leave the rib's stronger this way as apposed to drilling into them. Any thought's

--

Rob.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: wings

I'm thinking it will leave the rib's stronger this way as apposed to 

drilling into them. Any thought's

| --

| Rob.



Rob:



Rib stitching works better with flat wood ribs.



Fabric rivets work better with round aluminum tubing.



Kolbs have amassed thousands of hours over the years with no 

indication of weak ribs because of rib stitching.  It is a well 

proven, approved method of fixing fabric to the wing.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: wings

Yes I have, and yes I think it would.

But almost no one on the list agrees with me.

However, I am unwilling to abuse my airplane sufficient to find a conclusive 

answer...



Don't know how long it takes to drill all those holes, but my wife and I rib 

stiched one wing in half a day, and a friend brought his son over the next 

day to see how it was done and we did the other one in about three hours.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: wings

| Kolbs have amassed thousands of hours over the years with no

| indication of weak ribs because of rib stitching.  It is a well

| proven, approved method of fixing fabric to the wing.

|

| john h

Hi Gang:



Made a boo boo.  The above is incorrect.  Should have said, "No 

indication of weakened ribs because of drilling for fabric rivets."



Xin loi!!



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: Re: wings

Hi Richard,

                Just wondering.....on a Tractor , the rib stitching needs to



be "more" in the area of the prop blast.....



  Did you just keep the same pattern all the way , since it's a pusher ?



   Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: wings

But you were correct the first time. 

There is no indication of weakened ribs because of rib stitching... <grin>

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



do not archive



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: wings

Yep. But I put a few extra on the tail surfaces. Probably more than 

necessary...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: wings

| But you were correct the first time.

| There is no indication of weakened ribs because of rib stitching... 

<grin>

| Richard Pike



Morning Richard:



I agree.



Last night, after I went to bed, I remembered what I was trying to 

think of about the comparison of rib stitching and fabric rivets.  It 

has to do with grip and pull.



Wooden rib caps are usually flat and wide.  Rib stiching does a good 

job of covering the same width of fabric and reinforcing tape as the 

width of the rib cap.



On the other hand, rib stitching a 5/16" tube presents a problem or 

two.  First, if we grab the same amount of reinforcing tape and fabric 

as the width of the rib, the rib stitch will pull the fabric down 

around the round rib cap.  Second, if we grab the apex of the round 

rib cap, we may not have sufficient material to secure it correctly.



I may be wrong, but that is what was running through my head when I 

went to sleep last night.



Now, which system is quicker?  Probably depends on the operator. 

However, it doesn't take long to mark and drill the rivet holes before 

the fabric goes on.  Then a quick once over with the pencil soldering 

iron to burn through the reinforcing tape and fabric.  Setting and 

popping the rivets is quick.  All this requires one man.



I have very little rib stitching experience.  I stitched the rear 

longerons of the mkIII fuselage in the area of prop drumming.  Was 

made more difficult because I had already installed the fuel tank and 

most of the stitching was "blind" stitching.  Don't want to do that 

again.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: wings

Correct on all counts. If you are going to rib stitch 5/16" tubing, you want 

1/4" wide reinforcing tape.



Perhaps the most important thing is your mentioning that rivits take one 

man. If you are going to do it by yourself, by all means, use rivits.



If you have the luxury of a companion to talk to while you poke the needle 

back and forth from one side of the wing to the other, with a cup of coffee 

sitting on the stool next to you, rib stitching becomes more appealing.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: wings

For what it's worth...

          John H. has some important points re: stitching, and bunching of 

tape, etc.  And as I already stated, stitching is really a two man job.   

Although I intended on rib-stitching, my mind can easily be changed!!!!



   My only question is:   Are the rivets very noticable when the wing is 

finished???

If they aren't, then I will go back to the rivet method.  It will be a LOT 

less work, that's for sure.

                           Mike in Utah



_________________________________________________________________

Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: wings

|   My only question is:   Are the rivets very noticable when the wing 

is

| finished???

 |                           Mike in Utah

Mike:



Take a look.



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: wings

<< Has anyone chose to rib stitch instead of riveting the skin to the

wing's?  I'm thinking it will leave the rib's stronger this way as

apposed to drilling into them. Any thought's -- Rob. >>



Rob - I rib stitched the fabric to the wings of my Kolb.  I like to

think it was less work than drilling a thousand holes in 5/16" tubes.

Plus, the finish is less bumpy.  Like you, my thoughts are that it will

be much easier to remove the old fabric if I ever have to replace the

wing fabric.



But best of all, learning & perfecting the rib stitching technique was

an enjoyable and very gratifying part of the building process for me!

Learning the special finishing knot was fun.



If you are even mildly considering rib stitching over rivets, my advice

is, "Go for the rib stitching!"



Dennis Kirby

Mark-III, 912ul, 63 hrs

do not archive

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: wings

A Thousand Holes...?

.

There's your problem.... You drilled 750 holes too many.....



   Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN 

.

.

.



 	  Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote: 	
		  <<Has>>



Rob - I rib stitched the fabric to the wings of my Kolb.  I like to

think it was less work than drilling a thousand holes in 5/16" tubes.

Plus, the finish is less bumpy.  Like you, my thoughts are that it will

be much easier to remove the old fabric if I ever have to replace the

wing fabric.



But best of all, learning & perfecting the rib stitching technique was

an enjoyable and very gratifying part of the building process for me!

Learning the special finishing knot was fun.



If you are even mildly considering rib stitching over rivets, my advice

is, "Go for the rib stitching!"



Dennis Kirby

Mark-III, 912ul, 63 hrs

do not archive

Steven Green

Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: wings

Mike,



If you decide to go with the rivets and buy your covering supplies from Jim

and Dondi they will send you a drill jig to make drilling the ribs a little

easier.



Steven



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 For what it's worth...

           John H. has some important points re: stitching, and bunching of

 tape, etc.  And as I already stated, stitching is really a two man job.

 Although I intended on rib-stitching, my mind can easily be changed!!!!



    My only question is:   Are the rivets very noticable when the wing is

 finished???

 If they aren't, then I will go back to the rivet method.  It will be a LOT

 less work, that's for sure.

                            Mike in Utah

_________________
Steven Green

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: Re: wings

Hey Steve,

                I had my Doubts about that drilling jig at first...



 But that little sucker really worked GOOD !



 Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN



 Picture below is for the question , Are rivets MORE noticeable...

Most picture, the rivets won't show up ( I looked ) but this picture you

can see them.... Judge for yerself

Mikes_plane_1_.jpg

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: wings

<< your mentioning that rivits take one man. If you are going to do it

by yourself, by all means, use rivits.  If you have the luxury of a

companion to talk to while you poke the needle back and forth from one

side of the wing to the other ... rib stitching becomes more appealing.

Richard Pike >>



I was able to stitch both wings solo.  It's easiest done with the wing

hanging from the ceiling, trialing edge up.  In looking back at my

builder's log, the first wing took about 4.5 hours to rib stitch; the

second one, a little more than half that time.  And it was STILL

appealing for me!



As Richard also pointed out, I used quarter-inch wide reinforcing tape

(at Jim & Dondi's recommendation) over the 5/16" rib tubes.  This did an

excellent job of minimizing any pucker at each stitch, while still

providing adequate surface area for the stitch to grip.  You can sleep

peacefully now, John H. 



Dennis Kirby, with orangutan arms, in

Cedar Crest, NM

do not archive

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