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stitching ribs
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n113gb(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Ya, I've got one. Why would you even want to take the chance on being the first casualty when the answer is one that basically doesn't weigh anything, costs next to nothing, yet gives you a little stronger product. I was willing to invest 10 - 12 hours to eliminate one more possible problem. After all, isn't homebuilding all about learning to build the safest product possible? Rib stitching is a very interesting skill to learn and after a while it can be an enjoyable experience. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

  

 Gary Olson

 Oshkosh

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: stitching ribs

To stitch or not to stitch,  that is the question.

  

 I don't think there is a person  here who would not recognize the physical strength of rib stitching. that's the  plus.

  

 Removing the skins at a future date may be  a little easier.

  

 Rib  stitching is done after the cloth is shrunk.  so the tension on either side  of a rib can be equalized easily.

  

 It looks  right.

  

 The stitching minuses are:  

 It takes longer to do.  My  cat can fix up a pretty good knot so I don't think any one who can build a plane  will have too much trouble with that.  

  

 It is not as sleek/smooth there  will be tapes and little bumps that may show through.  

  

 Of course it will be heavier...  You are putting more into the wings. Not only the string but the tapes and extra  dope to apply them.

  

 It is hard, if not impossible  to rib stitch through fuel tanks.

  

  

  

 Pros for the  gluing:

  

 It is  faster.

  

 It is  lighter.

  

 It is more  aerodynamic

  

 Cons for  gluing:

  

 You may not be able to get the  cloth shrunk with an even tension on each side of a rib... If you don't fixing  it may be difficult.

  

 Removing the cloth may damage  the ribs if you are not very careful.

  

 A small void in a joint may  have bad results as the shear forces a void in the glue joint can exert may  separate a large piece of cloth on a rib over a period of  time.

  

 What to do:   

  

 Get all the info you can  remember none of your planes are supersonic or going to see +/- 7  G.

  

 Go with your decision, being as  careful as possible to do a good clean job.

  

 Noel

 Kitfox III-A  

 All glued  up....Still like the look of stitching.

 [quote]   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Dave sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  What did the former companies reco-mend ? denney ,skystar, avid, and 

now Sportplanes ?


	


As Don said, the only recommendation that matters is from the maker 

of the glue that holds the fabric on, and they say to rib stitch. 

Poly-tac is very strong in sheer, less so under a peel load.



 	  Quote: 	
		  What does the airplane Kit manufacturer ask for in build manual?

That is what is required for inspection here.


	


I'm pretty sure my manual refers me to the Poly Fiber manual for 

instructions on attaching fabric.  If you don't follow the Poly Fiber 

instructions, you haven't done it per spec.



Mike G.

N728KF

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: stitching ribs

I suspect that the Polyfiber recommendation is generic in nature.  Example - 

the Rans rib was previously fabricated from aluminum tubing.  The contact 

surface is probably a tangent of about an eighth of an inch wide.  I have 

seen their new ribs and the capstrip - all aluminum stamped rib - is 

probably a half inch wide.  With our 1" capstrip I think we can get away 

with a bit more leeway in the decision process.   That said, I did rib 

stitch, largely because of a discussion such as this.  I think someone said 

something about "belt and suspenders".  Something like fuel tank valves, 

essential busses, dual ignitions - those things we just don't want to wish 

we had when the proverbial "combination of factors" smites us.



Lowell

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dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Dave,

     I must admit, this whole thread  between you and me was a test.  You remember my post a couple weeks  ago about the list becoming a basic CHAT room.  I wanted to see how far you  would go trying to convince everyone that rib stitching wasn't  necessary.

     You asked for proof of a cap failure and I  gave you one.  You never mentioned it or acknowledge it  just kept  saying, "rib lacing not necessary"... You never offered one piece of  informative, factual information except to say, rib stitching not  necessary".  You asked all the questions and accepted no  answers.  

      Finally, I almost spit my first cup  of coffee all over the computer this morning when I saw your final words.   "anymore questions" ?   Dave, you  asked all the questions ("what did SS say, what did Avid say, what did John say,  has there ever been a cap failure, and on and on.") Your very latest now want's  a survey.  What purpose would that serve except to tie the List up with  more unnecessary CHAT?  Rib lacing is highly preferred and recommended  by Poly Fiber. Period.  In your last post you said you would have to be  sold on rib lacing.  I really don't know what else it would take to sell  you.

  

    Gary Olsen answered your "anymore questions" the best of  all.   If that's not reason enough, what else do you want?

  

 >>doesn't weigh anything, costs next to nothing, gives a  little stronger product,  invest 10 - 12 hours, build the safest  product possible, interesting skill, enjoyable experience.>>

  

     BTW Dave, I don't have any more questions.

  

 Don Smythe

 Do Not Archive



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jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Why is this an issue?... Rib Lace !  It's fun and you get to learn.  Poly

Fiber recommends a mechanical attachment and there are a few "approved"

methods.



What is Kitfox Aircrafts point of view... Rib Lace !   It's fun and you get

to learn.  Poly Fiber recommends a mechanical attachment and there are a few

"approved" methods.



Round cord or flat cord... I like the flat... takes a little more time but I

like the look..



I have never looked out at the wings and said... I wish I hadn't rib

laced....

Fly Safe !!

John McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



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9:31 AM

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

John ,  it is not an issue,

I only stating that a vast majority of Kitfoxs are not stitched.

I certainly do not want to caue any concern for the many owners and builders 

of these great planes.

I fly mine with out stitching over 250 to 300 hours per year and no 

troubles.

If I was to recover would i stitch ?  Possibly but in a 582  I doubt it. 

The 1 inch wide capstrip does a excellent job at adhesion.

Look at many Ultralights with 1/2 "  Round tube with fabric "glued to them 

only"  not to mention alum ribs that are only 1/2 "

That is my ten cents worth,

Dave

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_________________
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occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Hi Dave, you sure know how to start a debate! I heard back from John 

Falconar about the Hipec method. He states that I can use his covering 

method on the structure I have primed with Stits epoxy primer and epoxy 

varnish with the proviso that I scuff up areas of attachment a little. Now 

the Hipec method does not ask for any stitching or finish tapes. I have seen 

a Coot with just this method and it's held up very well to ten years of 

hangar rash. A young and energetic has built a Rans S6 using it and he's 

pleased with it. I haven't decided yet, but if I use the Polyfiber method it 

would make sense to use the full method. If someone wanted to avoid the 

extra work of finish tapes and lacing it would make sense to use a method 

that does not ask for them I would think. In my case the extra work will not 

be a determining factor. I have the Hipec book coming and will decide when I 

have all the information. I did have occasion to pull some fabric free of 

structure and in peel it come free with only moderate effort.



Do not archive

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eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

This is a quote from you DAVE



" I have no trouble flying  without stitching. And remeber Poly fibrre is 

most likely being over  cautious for liability reasoning.  



I don't think that if you not  stitched that there is any case for alarm 

at all. "



Dave



DAVE you are talking out of both sides of your ass and neither  one is winning.

 When I suggested using the same sparkplugs but a  different part number than rotaxes you hammered on me for not Buying and  following rotaxes recommended parts . SO where are you going to make up your  mind on this . You cannot say to only use rotax parts but when it comes to your  wings and the fabric manufacturer I" Dave" know whats best and dont listen to  the factory they are only saying this for liability reasons . 

  

 And to change the subject while I am at it I would  really like to see you land and take off in a TRUE 1 FOOT OF WATER. The damage  done would be something to behold lol. Now if you are skip landing and the  flying off that is another thing . But to say you are landing and taking off  from this is a little bit much on the story telling side. 

  

 John Perry

  

   [quote][b]

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