Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

billdube(at)killacycle.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

Well, I said I was going to do it and we finally got the prototype built.



We just built a 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr, battery that weighs just 

3.7 pounds. I've been testing it in my GMC van for the past week here 

in the Denver Winter. It snaps the van right over every morning 

without a problem. The van cranks faster than it did with the 

standard lead-acid battery.



It is smaller than the Odyssey 680 so it fit in the same battery box 

with a couple of foam blocks for spacers.

The battery has four status LEDs that tell you the cell balancing 

electronics are working OK. We are using A123 Systems M1 cells with 

our own custom battery management electronics. The A123 Systems cells 

are proven to be the safest Li-Ion cells on the market. No problems 

with fires (like laptop cells) because the chemistry they use is 

completely different.



The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like 

leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a 

long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It 

will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly 

as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last 

you for many years.



I think we will be in production in about a month, maybe two.



Specs:



3.7 lbs

600 cranking amps

11.5 amp-hr

Approximate maximum dimensions: 3" wide, 5" long, 7" tall (including 

terminals)

Charging voltage = 13.8 to 15.0 volts (anywhere in this range is OK)

Nominal voltage = 13.2 volts (Just a touch higher than your typical 

lead-acid, so it spins the starter a touch faster.)

Cell cycle life rated at 2000 cycles (80% DOD, 90% capacity 

remaining) 10,000 cycles (80% DOD with 50% capacity remaining) (at)25 C

Cell specs: 

<http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf>http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf 



Maintenance free

No heavy metals (iron-phosphate type cells)



At this time, we estimate the retail price will be $595. (Yeah, I 

know this is not cheap, but this is the state-of-the-art battery 

technology so the parts to make it are not cheap.)



Here is a picture of the prototype. We have it in a clear Lexan case 

so we can keep an eye on it. The production battery will have a 

smaller opaque case with a clear top lid (terminal end.)

http://www.killacycle.com/photos/aircraft-battery/Prototype1InVan.JPG

We have been racing these cells in the KillaCycle for about a year, 

so we know _all_ about them.

<http://www.KillaCycle.com>http://www.KillaCycle.com (Be sure to 

watch the movie clip.)

Bill Dube'

<mailto:bike(at)KillaCycle.com>bike(at)KillaCycle.com

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

jmsears(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

 	  Quote: 	
		  > At this time, we estimate the retail price will be $595. (Yeah, I know 

> this is not cheap, but this is the state-of-the-art battery technology so 

> the parts to make it are not cheap.) <<


	


Whoee!!!!   At that price, someone else can do the field testing of that 

state-of-the-art product.  I'll stick with proven heavier batteries and put 

the money saved into something else!  I'm sure there'll be some who will 

want to give it a go, though.  To some, a pound saved is worth a mint.  



 	  Quote: 	
		  >The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like

leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a
	


long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It

will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly

as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last

you for many years.<<



To me, some of these exotic batteries are just too fragile to our bungling 

ways to make it worth the cost, no matter how great the performance.  It's 

like we've learned in model aviation.  A NiCD battery is awfully hard to 

beat for day to day usage and mistreatment, even if they do weigh a tad 

more.  They cost far less, as well.  Those of us who fly models on a lean 

budget are more likely to stay away from Li-poly, the A123 Systems M1, and 

such.  We just can't see leaving the safety of something that works well to 

jump into the fire (sometimes literally with Li-poly batteries) to try the 

exotics.  Of course, it would be different, if we were flying electrics. 

For those guys, every ounce of weight saved and amp of capacity gained is 

worth the cost.  



Just recently, my RV's Concorde RG 25XC battery had to take the punishment 

he just described.  The voltage regulator quit during some night landings. 

The battery got down to about 8V before I caught it.  Some things kinda quit 

working well, about that time.    Shame on me for not catching it; but, I 

was having fun with the night landings.  After I replaced the voltage 

regulator, and recharged the battery some, the recharge during the next 

flight pushed 16V until it stabilized a few minutes into the flight.  I 

can't tell any difference in the battery's performance.  It still spins the 

engine crisply on these cold mornings.



Of course, none of us ever leave the master on.  Do we?  



I'll stick with the proven stuff, for now.  If some of you Listers try this 

offering, please report your findings to us poor folks.  It sems to me, 

there will have to be some kind of device installed with the battery to 

prevent low voltage, over voltage, and that forgetful mind that leaves on 

the master.  Otherwise, a promising product could get a bad reputation 

before it gets a fair shake out.  Am I wrong on this?



Jim Sears in KY

RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)

do not archive

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

William.P.Dube(at)noaa.go
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

The damage threshold is similar to what you have with your typical agm 

lead-acid (like the Odyssey 680.) You leave the master on for a couple 

of days and you will likely ruin the battery. The cost of making such a 

mistake is higher. I would strongly suggest a door switch and a warning 

buzzer. 



Bill Dube'



 	  Quote: 	
		  



>> The battery can be damaged by running it completely flat (like

>

 leaving the master on) and holding the battery below 8 volts for a

 long time. It can also be damaged by charging it over 15.0 volts. It

 will likely still function after such abuse, but it won't be nearly

 as good as it was originally. If you don't abuse it, it should last

 you for many years.<<



 To me, some of these exotic batteries are just too fragile to our 

 bungling ways to make it worth the cost, no matter how great the 

 performance.  It's like we've learned in model aviation.  A NiCD 

 battery is awfully hard to beat for day to day usage and mistreatment, 

 even if they do weigh a tad more.  They cost far less, as well.  Those 

 of us who fly models on a lean budget are more likely to stay away 

 from Li-poly, the A123 Systems M1, and such.  We just can't see 

 leaving the safety of something that works well to jump into the fire 

 (sometimes literally with Li-poly batteries) to try the exotics.  Of 

 course, it would be different, if we were flying electrics. For those 

 guys, every ounce of weight saved and amp of capacity gained is worth 

 the cost.  



 Just recently, my RV's Concorde RG 25XC battery had to take the 

 punishment he just described.  The voltage regulator quit during some 

 night landings. The battery got down to about 8V before I caught it.  

 Some things kinda quit working well, about that time.    Shame on 

 me for not catching it; but, I was having fun with the night 

 landings.  After I replaced the voltage regulator, and recharged the 

 battery some, the recharge during the next flight pushed 16V until it 

 stabilized a few minutes into the flight.  I can't tell any difference 

 in the battery's performance.  It still spins the engine crisply on 

 these cold mornings.



 Of course, none of us ever leave the master on.  Do we?  



 I'll stick with the proven stuff, for now.  If some of you Listers try 

 this offering, please report your findings to us poor folks.  It sems 

 to me, there will have to be some kind of device installed with the 

 battery to prevent low voltage, over voltage, and that forgetful mind 

 that leaves on the master.  Otherwise, a promising product could get a 

 bad reputation before it gets a fair shake out.  Am I wrong on this?



 Jim Sears in KY

 RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)

 do not archive

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

William.P.Dube(at)noaa.go
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Just recently, my RV's Concorde RG 25XC battery had to take the 

 punishment he just described.  The voltage regulator quit during some 

 night landings. The battery got down to about 8V before I caught it.  

 Some things kinda quit working well, about that time.    Shame on 

 me for not catching it; but, I was having fun with the night 

 landings.  After I replaced the voltage regulator, and recharged the 

 battery some, the recharge during the next flight pushed 16V until it 

 stabilized a few minutes into the flight.  I can't tell any difference 

 in the battery's performance.  It still spins the engine crisply on 

 these cold mornings.


	




    This new battery would withstand this brief abuse with the same 

result. It would still work OK if you didn't do these nasty things to it 

for very long. It would not be bothered at all by running it down to 8 

volts. That would cause no damage whatsoever.



    The A123 Systems cells are quite a bit more robust than other Li-Ion 

cells. They can really "take a punch" unlike the typical Li-Polymer or 

the Cobalt cells that will go belly-up with even a hint of over-voltage 

or under-voltage.



    I wouldn't be putting these things out on the market if they 

couldn't take a lickn'. 



Bill Dube'

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

Sounds great Bill, let me know when ultra lean, six sigma, manufacturing

processes get the price down to around $50.  Then I'll try it:-)



Dean Psiropoulos

RV-6A N197DM

Finishing Wiring, electrical checkout.





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Bill Dube <billdube(at)killacycle.com>

Subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

billdube(at)killacycle.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

Sell ya a battery for $50 right now, but it will weigh 35 lbs instead 

of 3.5 lbs. You pick.



Bill Dube'



At 10:30 PM 2/7/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>



Sounds great Bill, let me know when ultra lean, six sigma, manufacturing

processes get the price down to around $50.  Then I'll try it:-)



Dean Psiropoulos

RV-6A N197DM

Finishing Wiring, electrical checkout.





 >From: Bill Dube <billdube(at)killacycle.com>

 >Subject: 3.7 lb, 600 cranking amp, 11.5 A-hr battery

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum