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Fuel Injection System

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bsavage22(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

I have been reading with interest all of the postings on purge valves on the 

AirFlow Perfromance System.  I am getting ready to order an engine for my 

RV-7A and I am wondering if there is a consensus on what brand of fuel 

injection that I should order.  I am looking at either the Silver Hawk EX or 

the Airflow Performance system.  What are the pro and cons of each?

Thanks,

Bob Savage



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Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy 

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khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

On 7 Feb 2007, at 20:14, Robert Savage wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have been reading with interest all of the postings on purge  

 valves on the AirFlow Perfromance System.  I am getting ready to  

 order an engine for my RV-7A and I am wondering if there is a  

 consensus on what brand of fuel injection that I should order.  I  

 am looking at either the Silver Hawk EX or the Airflow Performance  

 system.  What are the pro and cons of each?


	


They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if  

installed in accordance with the installation instructions).  But,  

the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and cheaper to  

tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at the same fuel  

flow.



But, if Van sells any firewall forward stuff for a fuel injected  

engine of your type, it will be designed for the Bendix system.  You  

can expect to have to make airbox mods to match the AFP system, as it  

puts the air intake in a bit different place than with a Bendix.   

Dozens (hundreds?) of RV builders have successfully done these mods,  

so it is doable.



Kevin Horton

Ottawa, Canada

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

It's not so "do it yourself" as Kevin implied.  Van's actually sells certain 

kits for AFP installs specifically.  For example:



http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1170905908-136-117&browse=engines&product=fab-vertical



do not archive

)_( Dan



---

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump,  

like the angle valve IO-360s?  Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or  

do you still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or  

make your own?  And what about firewall forward kits?  Does Van sell  

any for engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver  

Hawk system?



Kevin



On 7 Feb 2007, at 22:39, Dan Checkoway wrote:



[quote] 



 It's not so "do it yourself" as Kevin implied.  Van's actually  

 sells certain kits for AFP installs specifically.  For example:



 http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi? 

 ident=1170905908-136-117&browse=engines&product=fab-vertical



 do not archive

 )_( Dan



 ---

dfischer(at)iserv.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

If I've heard correctly, one big drawback to the AFP system compared to

the Bendix-type is that AFP requires a return line to the fuel tank where

the Silverhawk does not.  Not a big deal if your tanks are not done, but

troublesome if they are.  I remember this from questions on the Yahoo

XP-360 list I asked during my tank construction.  If this is wrong, please

correct me since I still have time to add return lines if needed, but my

plan is Silverhawk.  The tuning info is intriguing, however.  As for cost,

I plan to get my engine built with FI from the outset, but see from Aero

Sport's website prices for IO-320 and O-320 the Silverhawk EX increases

the price by $1000.  AFP's website shows their conversion kit as $3000. 

Maybe AFP knocks off $2K when supplied by a engine builder such as Aero

Sport and makes it comparable but I've not seen any proof yet of AFP being

cheaper (less expensive).  This is a good line of discussion for me since

I have had the same questions of AFP vs. Silverhawk.



Doug Fischer

RV-9A Wings



do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   They probably both have the same performance and reliability (if

 installed in accordance with the installation instructions).  But,

 the AFP is cheaper to purchase, cheaper to overhaul, and cheaper to

 tweak the injectors so all cylinders reach peak EGT at the same fuel

 flow.

>

 Kevin Horton

 Ottawa, Canada

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

 	  Quote: 	
		   What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump,  like 

 the angle valve IO-360s?  Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or  do you 

 still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or  make your 

 own?  And what about firewall forward kits?  Does Van sell  any for 

 engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver  Hawk 

 system?


	


Good point.  Yeah, for that setup, I think you're largely gonna have to 

DIY...at least in terms of the FAB mods if not the control cables as well.



But from what I've seen, people using angle valve/horizontal induction are 

in a small minority.  I'd put money on the original poster having 

parallel/vertical...  



do not archive

)_( Dan

gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

Not quite correct.  Its not a full time return line, its only for use with the purge valve for flushing he fuel lines before startup.  It doesn't need to extend back to the tank.  In my setup its T'ed into the right tank supply line just up stream of the fuel selector in the cabin.  No changes to the fuel tanks required, easy to retrofit even on a completed plane.



g

 

 >--

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

See the attached photos for what Gerry  mentioned.  Very easy to tee the AFP purge return into the fuel  supply.

  

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

 www.rvproject.com

 www.weathermeister.com

 [quote]   ---

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bsavage22(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

My plan is to use a Mattituck parallel valve engine with a horizontal 

induction.  Based on what I have read on this list and how I understand that 

Van's firewall forward kits are put together, the Silver Hawk would be the 

most straightforward installation.  BTW, Mattituck says that both fuel 

injection systems cost the same on an engine bought from them.  Thanks for 

all of the input.

Bob

Finishing Kit RV7A QB



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Fuel Injection System

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:37:14 -0800






>What about the engines with injectors on the front of the oil sump,  like 

>the angle valve IO-360s?  Does Van sell a snorkel that fits, or  do you 

>still have to either modify one for a Silver Hawk system, or  make your 

>own?  And what about firewall forward kits?  Does Van sell  any for 

>engines with AFP, or are they all for engines with the Silver  Hawk 

>system?



Good point.  Yeah, for that setup, I think you're largely gonna have to 

DIY...at least in terms of the FAB mods if not the control cables as well.



But from what I've seen, people using angle valve/horizontal induction are 

in a small minority.  I'd put money on the original poster having 

parallel/vertical...  



do not archive

)_( Dan




	


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Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger

Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

I have the AFP system on an IO-360B1B, which is essentially just like an

O-360 (vertical induction) but replacing the carb with the AFP throttle

body.  In my case, upon informing VANs of my set up they just altered the

firewall forward kit slightly.  No changes to the airbox were needed.  The

only thing that wasnt quite right was that I had to exchange my mixture

cable for one that was a few inches  longer.  I adjusted the location for

the firewall pass-though on the mixture cable to better match the position

on the throttle body and had to experiment a little making throttle and

mixture cable attach brackets, but it wasnt bad overall.  I have also had

excellent customer service from Don at AFP.



 Erich Weaver

gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

To put all this in perspective ... the firewall forward kit isn't exactly "bolt on" in general.  The extra effort involved, if there is any, to use the AFP injection system over an alternative is minor compared to the machinations you go through in general once you get forward of the firewall.  Choose the best setup for your mission, the rest is details.



g

 

 >--

david.nelson(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

Hi Dan,



I'm curious - in looking at your pics, why didn't you plum the return in 

between the two backets?



Thanks,

 	 /\/elson

 	 RV-7A Fuselage

 	 Austin, TX



-- 

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dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

My philosophy was...the closer to the tank the better.  I don't think it 

makes much difference.



)_( Dan



---

david.nelson(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection System

Sounds reasonable.



Thanks,

 	 /\/elson



Do not archive



On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Dan Checkoway wrote:



[quote] 



 My philosophy was...the closer to the tank the better.  I don't think it 

 makes much difference.



 )_( Dan



 ---

kahuna

Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: Fuel Injection System

If you plumb into your fuel supply system instead of the tank or vent,

then there is a possibility of contaminating the fuel supply with air

should there ever be a problem with the return lines. IF this happens,

the result is a loss in steady fuel supply to the system and potential

engine failure. 

I have personal experience with this failure mode.

Mike

--

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