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Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

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loray(at)compuserve.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

Hi Milt:



    Have you experienced any hot start problems with the fuel injection

system?



               Thanks,



               Loray



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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

Not as yet but I have to qualify that with the fact that I first flew in November and haven't really had a warm day yet where I have shut down and restarted while the engine was still hot. On a couple of flights I stopped for fuel and got going again in 20-30" but it was less than 20degF outside so I am sure the engine and compartmentt cooled fairly rapidly.



I have a temp sensor in the aft engine compt and I have never seen it above 150degF.



For 1st start of the day I turn the boost on with mixture full rich and give it 2-3seconds of prime (boost pump puts out almost 30psi) for later starts that day I just bump the primer. Never see more than 3 blades before it fires.



Only start trouble I have had was 2 weeks ago it was 6 deg F outside. Using my normal methods it would kick over but wouldn't stay running.



So I just started increasing my prime 1 second at a time.



Ended up flooding it and started a fire on the ground. Not really sure what technique to use in really cold other than probably pre heat.



It really starts and acts pretty much like the pressure carb does as best I can tell.



I did also recently experience the momentary stumble with rapid throttle advancement that others have experienced with the carb. This had not occured in the past. Talked to Don Rivera at AFP about this and it seems I needed to increase pressure from the engine driven fuel pump.



I've made the adjustment but haven't flown yet.

_________________
Milt

db2005(at)2wings.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

Milt,



I would be very curious to see what your hottest aft engine compartment

temps run in the summertime. On the pitts 12, we normally run an aluminum

CO2 bottle for air, but awhile back I picked up one of those super light 3lb

firefighter backup bottles. Its a very thin aluminum bottle wrapped in

carbon/fiberglass rated to 2216 psi, but should be kept below 160 deg F. At

180 deg F the resin starts to transition, although at our pressures the

bottle won't burst since its operating at 38% rated pressure. Does anybody

have an idea what temp the air going INTO the bottle might be?



Also when have you seen 150 on your sensor, inflight or on the ground after

shutdown?



Thanks,



Darin Bishop

Pitts 12

www.2wings.com

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

Hey Guys, My guess you are confusing a port type injection system with the

type on Milt's aircraft. The port type on the big Lycoming are a pain to

start hot as we all know. The system Milt has is a throttle body type of

injection that is very similar to the pressure carb that is already standard

on the M14P. Furthermore, I expect there is a vapor return system on Milt's

instigation like all the Russian planes use. 



--

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

George is correct. I do not have multiport fuel injection. It is an AFP throttle body that bolts directly to the carb anchor bolts. It functions similiar to the pressure carb except for manual control of mixture.



While I plumbed for a fuel return line on the plane I did not utilize it. The fuel runs to the Throttle body and primer are so short direct and uphill that i did not think vapor would be an issue. So far this has turned out to be correct.



I think George (correct me if I am wrong) is developing a full blown multiport FI system that should be just awesome.

George,



How about an update on te FI system, electronic ignition, parts availability and whats going on in Russia/Romania.

_________________
Milt

Last edited by n395v on Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

 	  Quote: 	
		  when have you seen 150 on your sensor, inflight or on the ground after 

shutdown? 



	




Darin,



Highest temps have been on the ground shortly after shutdown but they decrease rapidly. I have an electric start so the airbottle is not an issue for me.

_________________
Milt

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

ELECTRIC start!!!???  On a 52TW we call them "sissy Yak's".   So I guess 

we'll have to start calling your Rocket a "sissy Rocket".    Only kidding 

with you of course, Milt.

Dennis



---

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

                         

donot archive

_________________
Milt

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

 	  dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co wrote: 	
		  ELECTRIC start!!!???  On a 52TW we call them "sissy Yak's".   So I guess 

we'll have to start calling your Rocket a "sissy Rocket".    Only kidding 

with you of course, Milt.

Dennis



--- 	




My "Sissy" Rocket"

_________________
Milt

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: Any hot start problems with fuel injection?

We are using a variation of ECI fuel injection. We are still in the

development stage. We have one version now running on our R-263 engine. The

factory is gaining experience with this system. It will be early next year

before we have a fully tested system. I am also half heartedly playing with

an electronic fuel injection as it has a lot of advantages in fuel delivery

control. 

George 



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