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pilot's family awarded $10.5M
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Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

 	  n616tb(at)btsapps.com wrote: 	
		  On the flip side of this.. Had the EAA performed those tests and the service

still failed they would certainly have been held responsible and maybe

rightfully so.  When you take that extra step you also become extra

responsible or liable. 	




I'm not sure that they would have been more liable if they'd taken that step. The jury seemed to suggest that they were liable TO take that step. Taking that step, it seems to me, would have only exposed the EAA further *IF* the services provided were not up to the standards. But I would expect -- and I think the court would have to agree -- that the entire point would have been if the fire services were not up to par, the EAA/NWEAA does not proceded with the fly-in.



I don't think the EAA becomes any more liable if the fly-in exec. director had been *more* knowledgeable about these details.



BTW, is it established that this was a volunteer fire crew? I don't know anything about the city of Arlington.



Do not archive

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

 	  jpl(at)showpage.org wrote: 	
		  Bob,



I think the basic problem is that none of us can be convinced that  

the EAA should have been expected to contract with services more  

qualified than the local fire department. 	




I'm not convinced of that either. The problem is that was the job of the EAA/NWEAA to make that case. Not the jury to make that decision.



See, the way the court looked at is by merely signing a contract to provide the services, the EAA was acknowledging that fire services were important. So they couldn't really come out at this point and say, 'oh, we couldn't be expected to provide fire services.'



The guy who really creamed the EAA here was James Nilo, the guy who runs the Virginia airports fire response. He testified about the standards and the EAA's response.  IN my reading of the court documents, the EAA's response to that was rather to define these standards, the lawyers opted instead to make two points (1) a crew stationed at midfield would not have reached the RVator any quicker and (2) The RVator would've died anyway.



You may well be right in your point and I think it's a bit unfortunate the EAA/NWEAA attorneys didn't attempt to redefine what proper standards would be in a fly-in like this.

//I don't think any of us can understand why the EAA is responsible but  

the organization that was on scene providing the so-called faulty  

services was exempt.  The ONLY reason I can imagine this being the  

case is if the plaintiff's lawyers didn't want the local jury to have  

to give an award that was coming out of their taxes.  Fine, move the  

darned trial somewhere, but if there were faulty services, the FIRST  

people to blame are the ones who performed the faulty services.



Read the article again if you have time. Apparently it's state law in Washington that the City of Arlington would be exempt in a case like this. I don't think the plaintiff's lawyers had anything to do with it. I think they probably would've been happy to have Arlington held liable.



The problem is that -- because of Snohomish County's screwy law -- different judges sat on this case at different points. So the first judge says  "Arlingotn is exempt" and the second judge -- later -- says "OK, Arlington is exempt, and now the liability transfers to the EAA/NWEA>"



And in the end, what the EAA concentrated on was  trying to convince one judge, what the OTHER judge meant. That's just plain nuts.



//If those services were insufficient, it's the local fire department's  

fault, not the EAA's.

//I think there's plenty of blame to pass around on this issue, but  

none of it on the EAA.



I personally think that's a reasonable conclusion. Unfortunately, I don't think the judge didn't give the jury the leeway to reach it.



do not archive

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

billshook2000(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

Like most of us I can only draw from my own experience.  When I go to the race track to

race my car with others of like minds...I pay someone for the use of that track and the

facilities/services provided there.  The services I pay for are defined in documentation

and I do very much expect them to be competent, properly equipped and capable of saving

me when things go wrong.  The article I read (posted here) stated that the EAA had

required a certain type of equipment be onsite for this event.  Which means EAA members

flying in could and should expect that equipment be onsite.  That equipment was not

there.  



That ladies and gentlemen ends our discussion on why the EAA is responsible for paying

$10.5M.  If you MAKE the requirement, and then do not follow it...you have shot yourself

in the posterior and nobody can save you.  They wrote down the requirement...there just

is no way around it.  Negligence, pay up.



Bill

 

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Pilot's Family Awarded $10.5M

DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

 Any idea how much insurance coverage the EAA parent  organization has?

   [quote][b]

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

Bill, that isn't so.  There was equipment on the field at the time.  This

occurred just prior to the airport being closed for the airshow.  A fire

engine was stationed on the west side of the field as it is every day at

almost any airshow I have attended.  I am not entirely sure why the choice

was made to dispatch a truck from somewhere else other than because the

accident occurred on the East side of the field across the active runways.

The accident did not look survivable and it may have played a contributing

factor in decisions made in the heat of the moment.  I do not know how they

do this.  I also could not speak to weather this would have made a

difference. 

Tim



[quote] --

lors01(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  //  [quote="lors01(at)msn.com"]To answer meaningfully, you would   have to give a logical reason why the framers of the Constitution wanted a  jury  system if it was not as a check on a legal system gone  bad.

T.C.  

  

 

The jury system was part of an entire system of governance enacted by  tthe Founding Fathers. To say that the jury system exists because the Founding  Fathers knew the rest of the system they devised had already "gone bad" is a  questionable conclusion. 

 

Defintely do not archive

--------

Bob Collins



 Not questionable at all.  As much as I revere and cherish  it,  they knew full well that the system they set in motion was  inherently unstable.  To quote one of them,  "The price of Liberty is  eternal vigilance".   There is a killing lack of that.   

  

 Tracy Crook  



   [quote][b]

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

In a message dated 2/19/2007 1:19:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I think    one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly, is that we assume    people who don't share the same opinion we share, are  stupid. 	


 

 ======================================

  

 Not stupid, just misguided, and I forgive you all in advance.  All of  my forgiveness will never amount to my agreeing with them, however.  Much  of the argumentation these days surrounds issues such as how many angels  can dance on the head of a pin, or what is the sound of one hand clapping, when  the answers are meaningless.    

 GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley,  CA)



  [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury?

  

  [quote][b]

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

You can bet absolutely none.  They would have been excused by the plaintiff.  You think they would have wanted any of us on there.  

Do Not Archive  

           

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:37 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M  

  

     

Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury?  

    

   

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		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List 	
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        [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

You can bet during the jury selection process every pilot with 100 miles was dismissed from sitting on that jury. If you were a homebuilder they probably would have had you shot and then dismissed ya. <G> 

  

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:

 Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury?

  

[quote]



====================================

tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================



[b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

I'll take that bet

  

 I gotta pay some Van's shipping charges on some 35  cent nutplates so this'll help. (g)

  

 do not archive



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  n801bh(at)netzero.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:17  AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:  pilot's family awarded $10.5M

 

 

You can bet during the jury selection process every pilot with 100 miles was  dismissed from sitting on that jury. If you were a homebuilder they probably  would have had you shot and then dismissed ya. <G> 

  

do not  archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:

 Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that  matter, pilots, were on the jury?

  

[quote]



tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

tronics.com







href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

For that matter he was a  buyer not a builder....

 Dan



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Hopperdhh(at)aol.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:37  AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:  pilot's family awarded $10.5M

 

 Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that  matter, pilots, were on the jury?

  

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

He probably cashed in for several million when he retired from Microsoft at the old age of 37, took his money and bought his death certificate. If he was a pilot clearly he was not a very good one and for that we all will paying for his mistake forever. And his wife and kids will live the easy life because of his dumb move....... There is NO justice... 

do not archive 

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> wrote:

 For that matter he was a buyer not a builder....

 Dan



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:37 AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M

 

 Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury?

  

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com







====================================

tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

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tronics.com

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