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Y-stick solution ! comfort ?
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taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

I'd hold off with the hack saw until after you see how comfortable the "Y" stick is.



 ---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

Is it un- comfortable?Tell me about  it      JoeN101HD

 [quote]   ---

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

IS it uncomfortable? Yes it is , the Y stick is designed to fall into the natural position of your arm and hand. If you take the Y portion off you will find that your right shoulder and wrist will be fatigued a lot faster. But, to each their own, my suggestion would be to leave it alone until you have several hours of flight time in your plane. As for the motorcycle throttle, great thought up front but I see issues with disturbed winds and I see potential dangerous situations on gusting cross wind landings. I will not tell anyone what to do but I do suggest you really think things out. IF you are considering hacking off the Y then consider dual sticks.   

   

What does the Y stick offer, it offers the ergonomic comfort that allows for long distance flights without muscle strain. It allows for the passenger to gain flight experience with holding on to the other side of the stick. It make for a more social flying experience. It allows for you to rest your wrist into the bottom of the Y on long flights. It allows for you to have your elbow planted on a arm rest and your hand fall naturally into neutral flight position.  

   

In short the Y configuration has advantages to it that are seldom considered. Ask someone who has had a Zenith Aircraft a long time they still have the Y stick installed.   

   

The decision is ultimately yours to make, but because it is not what you used before is not a good enough excuse to hack it off. Give it a try for a few hours first, then hack it off if you so desire. I doubt you would.  

     

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario  

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started  

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com  

  

--

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

I found the "Y" stick very comfortable on my 701.  I had foam grips on the "Y" (sold at motorcyle shops). Very comfortable to hold onto, and while in  cruise, it was very comfortable to rest my  hand/wrist in the bottom of the "Y".   



 ---

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

I am with Mark on this... When I first got my 801 kit I looked at the Y stick and assumed I would not like that at all.. After 160+ hours I would NOT want anything else. Just take the Y, add a Ray Allen top and enjoy,,,  YMMV 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> wrote:

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />  

IS it uncomfortable? Yes it is , the Y stick is designed to fall into the natural position of your arm and hand. If you take the Y portion off you will find that your right shoulder and wrist will be fatigued a lot faster. But, to each their own, my suggestion would be to leave it alone until you have several hours of flight time in your plane. As for the motorcycle throttle, great thought up front but I see issues with disturbed winds and I see potential dangerous situations on gusting cross wind landings. I will not tell anyone what to do but I do suggest you really think things out. IF you are considering hacking off the Y then consider dual sticks.  

  

What does the Y stick offer, it offers the ergonomic comfort that allows for long distance flights without muscle strain. It allows for the passenger to gain flight experience with holding on to the other side of the stick. It make for a more social flying experience. It allows for you to rest your wrist into the bottom of the Y on long flights. It allows for you to have your elbow planted on a arm rest and your hand fall naturally into neutral flight position. 

  

In short the Y configuration has advantages to it that are seldom considered. Ask someone who has had a Zenith Aircraft a long time they still have the Y stick installed.  

  

The decision is ultimately yours to make, but because it is not what you used before is not a good enough excuse to hack it off. Give it a try for a few hours first, then hack it off if you so desire. I doubt you would. 

   

Mark Townsend  Alma, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Ontario 

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started 

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com

 

--

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

For those of you who have chimed in about having flown the Y-stick for quite a while, please answer my current worry about putting a y-stick in my XL:  For right-handers, how do you handle right-handed tasks like writing down AITS info, tuning radios or handling anything on the right side of the instrument panel?  Especially if you are in a maneuvering sequence or in choppy conditions that do not allow hands-off flying?  



I am planning on the Y-stick but will have these quandaries until I can experience and work through them myself.



Thanks,

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

Dave go to www.homebuilthelp.com  and pick up the panel DVD. It will

show you all considerations taken into account on building your panel

with a center stick.



Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com

do not archive

--

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

It's not too hard to use the opposite hand on the Y stick for a short  

time to adjust radios and such. Very little effort is required for  

pitch control, roll requires a little bit more force but not very  

much deflection and the rudder can easily be used to lift a wing as  

well. If you can find anyone near you who has a Zodiac, I would  

recommend taking a test flight to see just hoe easy the plane is to fly.

On Mar 6, 2007, at 10:23 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:recommend



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>



 For those of you who have chimed in about having flown the Y-stick  

 for quite a while, please answer my current worry about putting a y- 

 stick in my XL:  For right-handers, how do you handle right-handed  

 tasks like writing down AITS info, tuning radios or handling  

 anything on the right side of the instrument panel?  Especially if  

 you are in a maneuvering sequence or in choppy conditions that do  

 not allow hands-off flying?



 I am planning on the Y-stick but will have these quandaries until I  

 can experience and work through them myself.



 Thanks,




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

David, I have the dual sticks in my XL and the ability to fly left handed is extremely valuable. Fly for three really bumpy hours, reach over to adjust the air vent, pull the carb heat, pull the cabin heat knob, push in a buss breakers, change fuel tanks, flip through freqs on the radio, punch in data in the GPS, refold a chart map, unlatch and use the fire extingisher, pick your right nose hole, etc. are just a few examples of center yoke can't do's. I flew Saturday and experienced a numb right hand after about an hour. I'm building an RV-8 and had banged a couple hundred rivets over the previous few days and the impact caused the right hand some problems. Without the ability to changes hands, getting back down might have been a real problem. I've flow an HD, HDS and XL with center yokes and the dual sticks have it all over them for comfort and utility. If you have not flown a dual stick XL your welcome to come fly mine. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 

    

  

 --

pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

My experience is the opposite.  I've flown my center "Y" stick for about 80 hours now, with two very long days in there.  I was able to change frequencies, read charts, write down notes and even pick my nose, all with my right hand.  In fact, when I did use my right hand for flying, i usually rested it on the armrest and gripped the stick down very low.  Very comfortable.  The funny thing is, I never really noticed which hand I was flying with.  To me this is a non issue.



Phil Maxson

 601XL/Corvair

 Northwest New Jersey

 [quote]  To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:30:46 -0500

From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com



 David, I have the dual sticks in my XL and the ability to fly left handed is extremely valuable. Fly for three really bumpy hours, reach over to adjust the air vent, pull the carb heat, pull the cabin heat knob, push in a buss breakers, change fuel tanks, flip through freqs on the radio, punch in data in the GPS, refold a chart map, unlatch and use the fire extingisher, pick your right nose hole, etc. are just a few examples of center yoke can't do's. I flew Saturday and experienced a numb right hand after about an hour. I'm building an RV-8 and had banged a couple hundred rivets over the previous few days and the impact caused the right hand some problems. Without the ability to changes hands, getting back down might have been a real problem. I've flow an HD, HDS and XL with center yokes and the dual sticks have it all over them for comfort and utility. If you have not flown a dual stick XL your welcome to come fly mine. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 

  

 

--

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

 	  zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: 	
		  IS it uncomfortable? Yes it is , the Y stick is designed to fall into the natural position of your arm and hand. If you take the Y portion off you will find that your right shoulder and wrist will be fatigued a lot faster. But, to each their own, my suggestion would be to leave it alone until you have several hours of flight time in your plane. As for the motorcycle throttle, great thought up front but I see issues with disturbed winds and I see potential dangerous situations on gusting cross wind landings. I will not tell anyone what to do but I do suggest you really think things out. IF you are considering hacking off the Y then consider dual sticks.   

   

What does the Y stick offer, it offers the ergonomic comfort that allows for long distance flights without muscle strain. It allows for the passenger to gain flight experience with holding on to the other side of the stick. It make for a more social flying experience. It allows for you to rest your wrist into the bottom of the Y on long flights. It allows for you to have your elbow planted on a arm rest and your hand fall naturally into neutral flight position.  

   

In short the Y configuration has advantages to it that are seldom considered. Ask someone who has had a Zenith Aircraft a long time they still have the Y stick installed.   

   

The decision is ultimately yours to make, but because it is not what you used before is not a good enough excuse to hack it off. Give it a try for a few hours first, then hack it off if you so desire. I doubt you would.  

     

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario  

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started  

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com  

  

-- 	




WWII English fighter planes had an oval ring on the end of the stick for comfort and so the pilot could get boths hands on their for pulling out of dives. But mostly it was for comfort. I think if you put your arm up on the rest and then put your arm out, relax it and hold it near the stick, you'll find the Y shape accommodates your grip better. Just thinking about a straight stick there makes the back of my shoulder ache.

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT, HACK SAW GOING BACK IN THE TOOL BOX FOR A WHILE 

JOE n 101  HD

---

David X

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 154
Location: Princeton, NJ, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

 	  DaveG601XL wrote: 	
		  For those of you who have chimed in about having flown the Y-stick for quite a while, please answer my current worry about putting a y-stick in my XL:  For right-handers, how do you handle right-handed tasks like writing down AITS info, tuning radios or handling anything on the right side of the instrument panel?  Especially if you are in a maneuvering sequence or in choppy conditions that do not allow hands-off flying?  



I am planning on the Y-stick but will have these quandaries until I can experience and work through them myself. 	




Ergonomic my fat A55! It is comfortable, but an utter pain! Try flying a cross country in turbulent winds while trying to reach across your body with left hand to manage radio and transponder, or reach across your body to hold the stick with the left while the right hand manages the instruments etc. In the pattern, it's not a problem.



An advantage of having a stick in the middle is that you can use your knees to steady the stick while you fiddle with the map. You can also easily switch hands to manage left or right sides of the panel.

_________________
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE

secatur

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 50
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

I LUUUV Posting something that attracts a lot of divergent opinions!!!! GO4IT u guys!LOL



I CUT IT OFF!!!! and I LUV IT!!!(but I saved it just in case!!! LOL)

ding(at)tbscc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

List,

            For what it's worth, when I was at the Zenith factory for a 601

test drive, I discussed the stick options with Roger.  He suggested I start

with the "Y" stick. If I thought there was any chance I would want to change

to dual sticks if the future, then drill the four required 3/16" holes in

the spar carry-through while building the plane.   The logic is that it's

much easier to drill those holes then. Because of the tilt of the spar

relative to the cabin floor, the lower holes are especially difficult (but

not impossible) to drill after assembly.

                                                                    Lynn

                                                                    601 XL /

Corvair

---

David X

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 154
Location: Princeton, NJ, USA

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

 	  zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: 	
		  Dave go to www.homebuilthelp.com  and pick up the panel DVD. It will show you all considerations taken into account on building your panel with a center stick. 	




If you go center stick, it flies comfortably, but definately rearrange your panel for left handed fiddling. Otherwise I hate it.

_________________
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

 	  japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  David, I have the dual sticks in my XL and the ability to fly left handed is extremely valuable. Fly for three really bumpy hours, reach over to adjust the air vent, pull the carb heat, pull the cabin heat knob, push in a buss breakers, change fuel tanks, flip through freqs on the radio, punch in data in the GPS, refold a chart map, unlatch and use the fire extingisher, pick your right nose hole, etc. are just a few examples of center yoke can't do's. I flew Saturday and experienced a numb right hand after about an hour. I'm building an RV-8 and had banged a couple hundred rivets over the previous few days and the impact caused the right hand some problems. Without the ability to changes hands, getting back down might have been a real problem. I've flow an HD, HDS and XL with center yokes and the dual sticks have it all over them for comfort and utility. If you have not flown a dual stick XL your welcome to come fly mine. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 

    

  

 -- 	




Best argument of all for dual sticks. Plus, consider that the passenger may NEED to reach some of the stuff that you designate for your left side pilots seat left hand. Having everything critical at center panel is a must. Right hand capable of being free stuff is critical too, especially for a righty. With the center stick you are extremely limited in what and how easiliy you can do stuff with that right hand with your left hand awkwardly crossed in front of your chest holding the stick. Just look at any Cessna 152 panel, it's arranged s that uber-critical stuff can be accessed by either pilot or passenger in the center. The dual controls allow for much easier switching of hands when needed. Plus with the dual sticks you can use you're third hand to hold the stick, your legs.

hrs1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

Has anyone ever considered a removable add-on extension to the Y yoke?  

Something like this:

                      (  |  o  / ---- ------  \    /

  Left hand ---(  | __/                      \/

                                                       |

                                                       |

      It would seem that this would have the advantages of easy entry 

(when removed) and the dual type yoke.   Robert Schoenberger  701 60%

ashontz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:

> David, I have the dual sticks in my XL and the ability to fly left handed is extremely valuable. Fly for three really bumpy hours, reach over to adjust the air vent, pull the carb heat, pull the cabin heat knob, push in a buss breakers, change fuel tanks, flip through freqs on the radio, punch in data in the GPS, refold a chart map, unlatch and use the fire extingisher, pick your right nose hole, etc. are just a few examples of center yoke can't do's. I flew Saturday and experienced a numb right hand after about an hour. I'm building an RV-8 and had banged a couple hundred rivets over the previous few days and the impact caused the right hand some problems. Without the ability to changes hands, getting back down might have been a real problem. I've flow an HD, HDS and XL with center yokes and the dual sticks have it all over them for comfort and utility. If you have not flown a dual stick XL your welcome to come fly mine. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 

>     

>   

>  --

>     

 Best argument of all for dual sticks. Plus, consider that the passenger may NEED to reach some of the stuff that you designate for your left side pilots seat left hand. Having everything critical at center panel is a must. Right hand capable of being free stuff is critical too, especially for a righty. With the center stick you are extremely limited in what and how easiliy you can do stuff with that right hand with your left hand awkwardly crossed in front of your chest holding the stick. Just look at any Cessna 152 panel, it's arranged s that uber-critical stuff can be accessed by either pilot or passenger in the center. The dual controls allow for much easier switching of hands when needed.

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL - Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99609#99609

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

Lynn, Roger is correct that drilling the bracket holes now is an advantage. What he may have failed to mention is that to put these brackets on the spar requires that the wings be removed. This is because to get the nuts onto the ends of the bolts has only one access and that is through the ends of the center spar where the main spar goes in. Removing the wings, once complete and flying, would be no easy task. FWIW, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 

    

 --

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: Y-stick solution ! comfort ?

And it is really best to have the center section out of the airplane altogether.  That way, the lower of the nuts can be accessed through the open bottom of the center section.  The top ones still must be held, with a "gadget" wrench through the open end of the center section.  So, if there is a possibility that you will be going to dual sticks, I strongly suggest fabbing and attaching the brackets before the center section is riveted to the fuselage.  They won't be in the way if you decide on a center Y stick.



Jay in Dallas

Do not archive

japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote]Lynn, Roger is correct that drilling the bracket holes now is an advantage. What he may have failed to mention is that to put these brackets on the spar requires that the wings be removed. This is because to get the nuts onto the ends of the bolts has only one access and that is through the ends of the center spar where the main spar goes in. Removing the wings, once complete and flying, would be no easy task. FWIW, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 

 

--

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