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joeing701(at)simnet.is
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 Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:04 am Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Hello list members.
The problem my friend had with his Kitfox, Rotax 912 ul engine has
been solved.
The Needle jet was too small so he drilled it to 2,80 from 2,72. Runs
like it should in all rpm settings.
Thanks to all who provided us with ideas and solutions to the problem.
With all the ideas and information, we could pinpoint the troubled area.
Best regards from Iceland.
Johann G.
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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So the bottom line was the guy that rebuilt the carbs put the wrong jets/needle in them?
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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joeing701(at)simnet.is
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Hello Roger.
No, the original owner used the plane in Florida or somewhere south
where the temps were higher than up north or even in Iceland, so the
jetting was according to Rotax, the standard setting.
But this jetting in our cold climate just did not provide enough fuel
in the mid range, so by drilling out the needle jet to the next size,
solved his problem. But I have the same engine, same jetting, same
temps, but do not have the box.
My carbs are getting the warmer air from the rear of the engine, but
his gets the cold air from above the gear box.
I hope if someone gets into a similar situation can learn something
from this experiment.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 14:17, Roger Lee wrote:
| Quote: |
>
So the bottom line was the guy that rebuilt the carbs put the wrong
jets/needle in them?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321781#321781
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Johann
yes we did learn something thanks! You experience demonstrates that the Bing carb doesn't properly compensate for temperature or altitude.
Also that obeying Rotax is not always the right thing to do. Be guided, yes but not blindly led
It's time Rotax gave us fuel injection perhaps
Graham
From: Jóhann Jóhannsson <joeing701(at)simnet.is>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 16:54:16
Subject: Re: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_J=F3hannsson?= <joeing701(at)simnet.is (joeing701(at)simnet.is)>
Hello Roger.
No, the original owner used the plane in Florida or somewhere south where the temps were higher than up north or even in Iceland, so the jetting was according to Rotax, the standard setting.
But this jetting in our cold climate just did not provide enough fuel in the mid range, so by drilling out the needle jet to the next size, solved his problem. But I have the same engine, same jetting, same temps, but do not have the box.
My carbs are getting the warmer air from the rear of the engine, but his gets the cold air from above the gear box.
I hope if someone gets into a similar situation can learn something from this experiment.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 14:17, Roger Lee wrote:
| Quote: | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
So the bottom line was the guy that rebuilt the carbs put the wrong jets/needle in them?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321781#321781
="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
_-= * The Builder's Bookstore http://wwsp; -Matt Dror?RotaxEngines-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? =============
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[quote][b]
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joeing701(at)simnet.is
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Hello Graham.
Yes the fuel injection is very timely for this engine. Other competitors are even going to another type of fuel. Who knows, we may even see an electric motor for kind of airplanes very soon???
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 17:03, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
| Quote: | Johann
yes we did learn something thanks! You experience demonstrates that the Bing carb doesn't properly compensate for temperature or altitude.
Also that obeying Rotax is not always the right thing to do. Be guided, yes but not blindly led
It's time Rotax gave us fuel injection perhaps
Graham
From: Jóhann Jóhannsson <joeing701(at)simnet.is (joeing701(at)simnet.is)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 16:54:16
Subject: Re: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_J=F3hannsson?= <joeing701(at)simnet.is (joeing701(at)simnet.is)>
Hello Roger.
No, the original owner used the plane in Florida or somewhere south where the temps were higher than up north or even in Iceland, so the jetting was according to Rotax, the standard setting.
But this jetting in our cold climate just did not provide enough fuel in the mid range, so by drilling out the needle jet to the next size, solved his problem. But I have the same engine, same jetting, same temps, but do not have the box.
My carbs are getting the warmer air from the rear of the engine, but his gets the cold air from above the gear box.
I hope if someone gets into a similar situation can learn something from this experiment.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 14:17, Roger Lee wrote:
[url=h= * HomebuiltHELP <a target=][/url]
[url=h= * HomebuiltHELP <a target=][/url]
[url=h= * HomebuiltHELP <a target=][/url] | Quote: |
color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Johann
unfortunately I'm not young enough to benefit, that is if the bureaucrats in Brussels allow us to fly at all!
Graham
From: Jóhann Jóhannsson <joeing701(at)simnet.is>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 23:14:15
Subject: Re: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater
Hello Graham.
Yes the fuel injection is very timely for this engine. Other competitors are even going to another type of fuel. Who knows, we may even see an electric motor for kind of airplanes very soon???
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 17:03, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
[quote]Johann
yes we did learn something thanks! You experience demonstrates that the Bing carb doesn't properly compensate for temperature or altitude.
Also that obeying Rotax is not always the right thing to do. Be guided, yes but not blindly led
It's time Rotax gave us fuel injection perhaps
Graham
From: Jóhann Jóhannsson <joeing701(at)simnet.is (joeing701(at)simnet.is)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 16:54:16
Subject: Re: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_J=F3hannsson?= <joeing701(at)simnet.is (joeing701(at)simnet.is)>
Hello Roger.
No, the original owner used the plane in Florida or somewhere south where the temps were higher than up north or even in Iceland, so the jetting was according to Rotax, the standard setting.
But this jetting in our cold climate just did not provide enough fuel in the mid range, so by drilling out the needle jet to the next size, solved his problem. But I have the same engine, same jetting, same temps, but do not have the box.
My carbs are getting the warmer air from the rear of the engine, but his gets the cold air from above the gear box.
I hope if someone gets into a similar situation can learn something from this experiment.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
On 30.11.2010, at 14:17, Roger Lee wrote:
ofollow" target="_blank"
* HomebuiltHELP http://www.matronicfollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.mgt; [b]
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Hi Johann,
Something is wrong some here. I have seen the Rotax 912 run in -20F weather and never miss a beat. It seems like it has to be the wrong needle, wrong jets, wrong needle clip position, some thing else in the carbs? You may have put a band-aide on the problem, but might have not fully solved it?
I just re-read your original post. 40F is nothing. Guys fly around the north US and in Europe below zero and don't have this issue. I flew this morning and it was 26F in Tucson, AZ. You have some other problem you haven't found yet which may be one of the ones I listed above.
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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joeing701(at)simnet.is
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: Problem solved. Rough running cured with carb heater |
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Thank you Roger for the input.
The carbs have the stock setup jets, all according to Rotax. They have
been cleaned many times, and the needle clip is in the bottom slot for
richest mixture. Everything is new in the carbs. Fuel system has been
cleaned from the tanks to the carbs. New fuel filter. Air cleaner has
been cleaned with K&N cleaning kit according to the manual. The air
temps have gone down to 20°F up to 40¨F during the test. The enricher
does not seem to fix the problem, but just the carb heat. My friend
has ordered new carbs and will try those in a few days. I will keep
you posted.
Thanks again,
Johann G.
On 1.12.2010, at 14:54, Roger Lee wrote:
| Quote: |
>
Hi Johann,
My question would be, Unless someone has overhauled those carbs at
one time and put the wrong kit in or moved the clip on the needle
you should not have had any issues from the Rotax stock carb setup
with in the OAT you posted at 40F? If you are having a problem and
those carbs have never been touched then I would have pulled those
carbs and done a fuel system flow check, a fuel pressure check and
dis-assembled the carbs for a good cleaning. Even the the smallest
piece of dirt in a carb can cause the issue you describe. I would
like to know if the clip on the needle was in the third slot from
the top? If it was strictly a mid range problem you could have moved
the clip down to the forth slot, but this should not have been
necessary. You still have the same problem with what you did, but
are masking or bypassing it by allowing more fuel in by drilling the
jet. You should also buy the proper jets and not drill them.
I would quit considering the air temp of 40F a major factor and
start looking for a fuel flow issue.
My slant on this is you still have the original problem, just
covered up now. It could show up later and not in a way you want it
to.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321914#321914
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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