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Marker Beacon

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AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

Looking for some guidance about putting the MB antenna in the wing tip.

Has anyone done this and how are the results as far as reception.

Since it is basically looking down this would appear to be a no brainer.

Appreciate any comments.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

The Marker Beacon radiates straight up at relatively high power.  A simple

quarter wavelength of wire in the wingtip or bottom of the cowl should work

well.



A quarter wave antenna at 75Mhz should be about 37.4 inches.  If you make it

with a fat wire or wide metal strip it would end up slightly shorter.  For

this single frequency application there are no advantages to a wide metal

strip over a single wire.  



The simplest thing to do is to run a coax line to a double female bulkhead

BNC connector on the end wing rib (wingtip antenna) or firewall (cowl

antenna).  From this you can make the connection to the antenna wire using

another male BNC connector.  Leave some slack so you can remove the

connector and hot glue or glass in the rest of the antenna wire.  If you

have an old piece of coax laying around you can fit a male BNC to it, then

remove the outer jacket and shield wire from about a half inch from the BNC

connector, leave the center wire as is (with the insulation on), cut the

wire so the total length is 37 1/2". 



If mounting in the wing tip try to keep it away from other wiring and as far

from the wing rib as possible.



Carl Froehlich

RV-8A (400 hrs)

RV-10 (flaps)

--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

May be a wrong question but why is anyone thinking of installing a MB

receiver. Any IFR GPS/EFIS identifies passing the OM. When over the final

approach fix which is co=located with a MB, the OM flashes on the EFIS. Same

question for ADF except for perhaps outside the USA. Here ADFs/NDBs and MB

seem to be last century's technology. 



--

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

We have two RV-10's using the same scheme as Carl wrote and it works well. There is a lot of power coming up from the ground so a simple wire is sufficient. If you plan to install a Bob Archer wingtip antenna today or add a backup NAV antenna in the future suggest you glass in the wire antenna on the upper side of the wingtip. If you glass it on the bottom the Bob Archer antenna will not work properly.

   

  Bill DeRouchey

  N939SB, flying 



Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" 



The Marker Beacon radiates straight up at relatively high power. A simple

quarter wavelength of wire in the wingtip or bottom of the cowl should work

well.



A quarter wave antenna at 75Mhz should be about 37.4 inches. If you  make it

with a fat wire or wide metal strip it would end up slightly shorter. For

this single frequency application there are no advantages to a wide metal

strip over a single wire. 



The simplest thing to do is to run a coax line to a double female bulkhead

BNC connector on the end wing rib (wingtip antenna) or firewall (cowl

antenna). From this you can make the connection to the antenna wire using

another male BNC connector. Leave some slack so you can remove the

connector and hot glue or glass in the rest of the antenna wire. If you

have an old piece of coax laying around you can fit a male BNC to it, then

remove the outer jacket and shield wire from about a half inch from the BNC

connector, leave the center wire as is (with the insulation on), cut the

wire so the total length is 37 1/2". 



If mounting in the wing tip try to keep it away from other wiring and as far

from the wing rib as possible.



Carl [quote][b]

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

Thank you for the information Carl. I also received a call which advised me that the MB in wingtip would work with a 18"x 6" wide base plate on which the MB antenna (Comant CI-102) would be mounted as close to the bottom of the wing tip as possible. This would give me a mounting plate as well as the "ground plane". I am not that knowledgeable in this area so any help is appreciated. 



I am essentially a VFR pilot but I wanted my plane certified as Day/Nite VFR/IFR so I have an SL30 Nav/Com and a Garmin 340 audio panel. My GPS is a Garmin 496. I figure that I saved about 6K on my panel over having a GNS430 plus on the 496  I get weather  and Zaon traffic avoidance. Seems to me the best bang for the buck. My AFS3500 apparently displays the GS but not the MB.

Any further comments appreciated.

A-Panel.JPG

Description:

Panel AFS3500, GPS496, SL30, 340

Filesize:

1.49 MB

Viewed:

485 Time(s)

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

If you are using an external MB antenna, then why not just mount it on  

the bottom skin of the wing with a doubler?  For that matter, you  

could just put it near the wing root and save the cost and weight of  

the additional coax.  I don't see any need to go to the trouble of  

putting a ground plane in the wingtip when you can just use the wing  

itself.  It will also make the wingtip a little easier to take off  

because there will be one less connection.  I have used the wire in  

the wingtip with a BNC connector on it.  Haven't actually tested it,  

but the common feeling I have seen in my reading is that a coat hangar  

would pickup the signal just fine, so bonding a wire in the wingtip  

should work fine.  I got this from Bob Archer.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On May 18, 2008, at 10:21 PM, AirMike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thank you for the information Carl. I also received a call which  

 advised me that the MB in wingtip would work with a 18"x 6" wide  

 base plate on which the MB antenna (Comant CI-102) would be mounted  

 as close to the bottom of the wing tip as possible. This would give  

 me a mounting plate as well as the "ground plane". I am not that  

 knowledgeable in this area so any help is appreciated.



 I am essentially a VFR pilot but I wanted my plane certified as Day/ 

 Nite VFR/IFR so I have an SL30 Nav/Com and a Garmin 340 audio panel.  

 My GPS is a Garmin 496. I figure that I saved about 6K on my panel  

 over having a GNS430 plus on the 496  I get weather  and Zaon  

 traffic avoidance. Seems to me the best bang for the buck. My  

 AFS3500 apparently displays the GS but not the MB.

 Any further comments appreciated.



 --------

 OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09

 Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183752#183752





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_panel_327.jpg

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

A Marker Beacon receiver is included in most audio panels so why not wire it up for the pure ILS/LOC approaches.  How is that EFIS determining it is passing the OM--by GPS position?  Not exactly legal for an ILS/LOC approach.  The MB is an integral component of an ILS/LOC approach--even though it may be superfluous in the age of GPS overlay.



The comparison to an ADF is not valid since for an ADF you would have to actually install an additional component--in addition to the antenna.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

I thought that an IFR approved GPS could legally identify marker beacons and NDB's. Is that not correct?



David Maib

40559

buried in fiberglass dust



On Monday, May 19, 2008, at 09:02AM, "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:

[quote]



A Marker Beacon receiver is included in most audio panels so why not wire it up for the pure ILS/LOC approaches.  How is that EFIS determining it is passing the OM--by GPS position?  Not exactly legal for an ILS/LOC approach.  The MB is an integral component of an ILS/LOC approach--even though it may be superfluous in the age of GPS overlay.



The comparison to an ADF is not valid since for an ADF you would have to actually install an additional component--in addition to the antenna.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

I'll  have to check but I believe the substitution is only allowed for NBD and DME not MB--but again this is splitting hairs.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

If you are equipped to fly ILS/LOC approaches, and you intend to fly such

when you can, that is, when you feel that is your best or only option, then

put the MB in.  In some cases it may be your only option.  Should you lose

that GPS, you're all set.  Easy enough to do, sounds like.  



John J  



--

drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

Bill



Any theoretical reason why the top vs the bottom of the wingtip?   When 

I took my EAA class about year and half ago, they showed the 

installation in the bottom half of the wingtip?  



Fred.

Bill DeRouchey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   We have two RV-10's using the same scheme as Carl wrote and it works 

 well. There is a lot of power coming up from the ground so a simple 

 wire is sufficient. If you plan to install a Bob Archer wingtip 

 antenna today or add a backup NAV antenna in the future suggest you 

 glass in the wire antenna on the upper side of the wingtip. If you 

 glass it on the bottom the Bob Archer antenna will not work properly.

  

 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB, flying



 */Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>/* wrote:



     



     The Marker Beacon radiates straight up at relatively high power. A

     simple

     quarter wavelength of wire in the wingtip or bottom of the cowl

     should work

     well.



     A quarter wave antenna at 75Mhz should be about 37.4 inches. If

     you make it

     with a fat wire or wide metal strip it would end up slightly

     shorter. For

     this single frequency application there are no advantages to a

     wide metal

     strip over a single wire.



     The simplest thing to do is to run a coax line to a double female

     bulkhead

     BNC connector on the end wing rib (wingtip antenna) or firewall (cowl

     antenna). From this you can make the connection to the antenna

     wire using

     another male BNC connector. Leave some slack so you can remove the

     connector and hot glue or glass in the rest of the antenna wire.

     If you

     have an old piece of coax laying around you can fit a male BNC to

     it, then

     remove the outer jacket and shield wire from about a half inch

     from the BNC

     connector, leave the center wire as is (with the insulation on),

     cut the

     wire so the total length is 37 1/2".



     If mounting in the wing tip try to keep it away from other wiring

     and as far

     from the wing rib as possible.



     Carl



     *

     *

sam.marlow

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 99

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Marker Beacon

Just glassed mine in the wingtip, works great!

Sam



---- AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net> wrote: 



=============




Looking for some guidance about putting the MB antenna in the wing tip.

Has anyone done this and how are the results as far as reception.

Since it is basically looking down this would appear to be a no brainer.

Appreciate any comments.



--------

OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot;09

Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183725#183725

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

Marker beacons have been on the phase out plan by the FAA for some time. 

I've been surprised a few times when a beacon actually sounded off, but 

it has been awhile.  No middle marker that I know of is required for an 

ILS anymore as DH is used instead, and very few use outer markers 

anymore, and those are usually named, published fixes in GPS databases. 

Otherwise have approach control give you a radar fix for the FAF.



John Jessen wrote:

[quote] 



 If you are equipped to fly ILS/LOC approaches, and you intend to fly such

 when you can, that is, when you feel that is your best or only option, then

 put the MB in.  In some cases it may be your only option.  Should you lose

 that GPS, you're all set.  Easy enough to do, sounds like.  



 John J  



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

True enough.  But they do exist and are useful, even as verification, until

totally eliminated.  Brings up a point about going with the SL40 vs the

SL30.  I'd go with the 30 simply because it gives you the VOR's as a useful

tool.  Some say not to since they, too, are supposedly on the way out.  Just

depends on how many revs back you want to go.  You have to know how to fly

and utilize what's in your panel.  



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Marker Beacon

No disagreement, since I still have working ADF, MB and Loran in my current panel. Don't think I will move any of them to new panel when I get there, but probably a couple years off to decide.



 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:05 PM, John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com (n212pj(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com (n212pj(at)gmail.com)>

 

 

True enough.  But they do exist and are useful, even as verification, until

 totally eliminated.  Brings up a point about going with the SL40 vs the

 SL30.  I'd go with the 30 simply because it gives you the VOR's as a useful

 tool.  Some say not to since they, too, are supposedly on the way out.  Just

 depends on how many revs back you want to go.  You have to know how to fly

 and utilize what's in your panel.

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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