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Argon gas

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markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: Argon gas

An unusual question for the list.  I have two  cylinders of argon gas that I'm not using.  Does anyone know if argon is an  acceptable gas to use in place of nitrogen for struts or tires?  I don't  want to try it in the main air system, but it's essentially free if I can use it  instead of just returning the bottles to my supplier.  It's an inert gas,  but if the molecules are significantly smaller than nitrogen then there's no  sense in using it or if there are any issues with it interacting with rubber or  oils.

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK

  

   [quote][b]

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: Argon gas

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Mark Davis <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org (markdavis(at)wbsnet.org)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          An unusual question for the list.  I have two  cylinders of argon gas that I'm not using.  Does anyone know if argon is an  acceptable gas to use in place of nitrogen for struts or tires?  I don't  want to try it in the main air system, but it's essentially free if I can use it  instead of just returning the bottles to my supplier.  It's an inert gas,  but if the molecules are significantly smaller than nitrogen then there's no  sense in using it or if there are any issues with it interacting with rubber or  oils.



	




Well, Ar is monoatomic, i.e. it doesn't bond to itself like N does (N2). A mole of gas is 22.4L at STP. A mole of N2 masses 28g. A mole of Ar masses 80g. This shouldn't make a difference when filling tires and struts. 

 



Heck, I would try it and see what happens. I don't *think* that Ar would migrate through the rubber and the seals like He would and so shouldn't be any different than N2. But if it does, just refill using N2 and all is good. 

 



One thing I can safely say is that the Ar will not interact with either the rubber in the tires or the oil in the struts so it is safe from that point of view.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

 3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Thanks for the input Brian.

  

 Mark

 [quote]   ---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: Argon gas

MAN!  Is that the question of the year or what?  

 

My total guess is that it would be fine for putting in tires or anything else for that matter.  It is totally inert, but is also pretty darn expensive, which is why it is not used by many.  At one time I have seen argon used to pressure waveguides in systems running a REAL large amount of power.  Usually waveguides are pressurized with nitrogen.  

 

Being inert, I do not think it will react with ANYTHING really, but am standing by for a real expert to speak up.  

 

GREAT QUESTION!  

 

Mark

 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Mark Davis

Sent: Wed 12/21/2011 2:04 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Argon gas

An unusual question for the list.  I have two cylinders of argon gas that I'm not using.  Does anyone know if argon is an acceptable gas to use in place of nitrogen for struts or tires?  I don't want to try it in the main air system, but it's essentially free if I can use it instead of just returning the bottles to my supplier.  It's an inert gas, but if the molecules are significantly smaller than nitrogen then there's no sense in using it or if there are any issues with it interacting with rubber or oils.

 

Mark Davis

N44YK

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: Argon gas

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

  

 MAN!  Is that the question of the year or what?

 

 My total guess is that it would be fine for putting in tires or anything else for that matter.  It is totally inert, but is also pretty darn expensive, which is why it is not used by many.  At one time I have seen argon used to pressure waveguides in systems running a REAL large amount of power.  Usually waveguides are pressurized with nitrogen.

  

 Being inert, I do not think it will react with ANYTHING really, but am standing by for a real expert to speak up.

	




I did. 



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

 3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: Argon gas

The bottles are attached to old diagnostic equipment that we're not using 

anymore.  One is showing 2,000 psi and has a nice regulator on it.  No sense 

in giving the bottles back to the gas company full!  The regulator will work 

on my nitrogen bottle.  The remainder of the diagnostic tool kit that used 

the argon has a yet to be checked out ultrasonic leak detector in it.  I'm 

happy with the fact that obsolete automotive test equipment works just fine 

on a YAK!



Mark Davis



---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Ok... there is just a chance that your leak detector is not ultrasonic, but instead actually detacts argon itself.  If that is the case, I would hold on to that think like gold.  Specific gas leak detectors are extremely sensitive.  So, what you have there might indeed be valuable.  Example:  You have a leak somewhere in your air system.  You can't find it.  You drain all air and refill with argon.  You then run around with argon leak detector and find it immediately.  Pretty cool. 

 

If that is indeed what you have, and you very well might.... check it out before you waste the argon.  

 

Take care, 

 

Mark

 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Mark Davis

Sent: Wed 12/21/2011 7:06 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Argon gas






The bottles are attached to old diagnostic equipment that we're not using

anymore.  One is showing 2,000 psi and has a nice regulator on it.  No sense

in giving the bottles back to the gas company full!  The regulator will work

on my nitrogen bottle.  The remainder of the diagnostic tool kit that used

the argon has a yet to be checked out ultrasonic leak detector in it.  I'm

happy with the fact that obsolete automotive test equipment works just fine

on a YAK!



Mark Davis



---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Mark D. I'm assuming you were using the Ar for finding leaks in auto a/c systems. As Mark says, you have a valuable commodity for tracking down those pain in the ass air system leaks! Save it. If have anymore of those systems lying around let me know. I could use to check my air on the 50 when I start putting it back together next month.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Dec 21, 2011, at 6:06 PM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 The bottles are attached to old diagnostic equipment that we're not using anymore.  One is showing 2,000 psi and has a nice regulator on it.  No sense in giving the bottles back to the gas company full!  The regulator will work on my nitrogen bottle.  The remainder of the diagnostic tool kit that used the argon has a yet to be checked out ultrasonic leak detector in it.  I'm happy with the fact that obsolete automotive test equipment works just fine on a YAK!

 

 Mark Davis

 

 ---

markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Thanks Mark.  I'll check the detector out.  One of my techs told me he

thought it was ultrasonic, but I'll check it out to be sure.  It has

headphones, so he may have assumed it was ultrasonic.  He'd never used it.

Ford replaced it with a smoke generating leak detection system.



Mark Davis



--

markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Doc,

     Ford used it at one time for evaporative emission system leak

detection.  I'll have to dig the book out on the system and see what all it

was capable of doing.



Mark



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Mark,  if argon was part of this "set" of equipment, it is highly likely the detector actually is sensing the argon itself.  They now sell the same things to directly sense freon.  Not my field of expertise in any sense, but I have heard of them.  I have used both ultrasonic and specific freon gas detectors, and both used headphones, so it is not really a give away.  Could be ultrasonic, could be argon gas!  But... if it is argon detection, I think the thing is way worth holding onto.  

 

Anyway, great thread.  Hope it is something that ends up being useful!  

 

Take care, 

 

Mark B.  



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Mark Davis

Sent: Wed 12/21/2011 9:49 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Argon gas






Thanks Mark.  I'll check the detector out.  One of my techs told me he

thought it was ultrasonic, but I'll check it out to be sure.  It has

headphones, so he may have assumed it was ultrasonic.  He'd never used it.

Ford replaced it with a smoke generating leak detection system.



Mark Davis



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: Argon gas

Copy



Sent from my iPad



On Dec 21, 2011, at 9:06 PM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Doc,

     Ford used it at one time for evaporative emission system leak

 detection.  I'll have to dig the book out on the system and see what all it

 was capable of doing.

 

 Mark

 

 --

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