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Another Scrap-builder Question.
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Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Gary, My only suggestion would be to trace the heritage of the stull you have on hand.  In other words, go to whomever sold it to you, and if necessary, to the one that sold it to them.  Someone along the line should know what it is.

 

 Good luck! - Jay

 Do not archive

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Randy,



You are most helpful.



Since this was not a special order item that I acquired (1 1/2" x 1 1/2"

ext.aluminum), and since it has sharp corners and no inside web, and since

it has uniformly thick flanges, chances are that it is 6063. Do I understand

correctly?



Gary Boothe

Cool, CA

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion

Tail done, working on wings....



American Standard:  Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,

channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.



Sharp Corner:  Flanges and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are

sharp, with nearly invisible radii.



but ONLY on the inside.  There is also a filet where the two legs join.  If

you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square,  if you put a

square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet, and

the legs are tapered.



The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not a

perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside and

it will measure square.  There is no taper of the flanges or legs.



When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily available

in the "American Standard" shape.



If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but

is available in 6063-T52.



Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"

book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52 angle.

Regards,



Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas

 	  Quote: 	
		   FYI guys, the ZAC supplied angles from my rudder

 workshop were absolutely square.  I have purchased

 other 6061-T6 extrusions from Aircraft Spruce that

 were square.



 Scott Laughlin

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Thanks, Jay. He’ll look funny walking around with it stuck up his you-know-what….  

   

Gary  

Do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:35 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.  

  

   

Gary, My only suggestion would be to trace the heritage of the stull you have on hand.  In other words, go to whomever sold it to you, and if necessary, to the one that sold it to them.  Someone along the line should know what it is.

 

 Good luck! - Jay

 Do not archive

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Gary, I typed "stull" and meant to type "stuff."  Sorry.  I am recovering from a detatched retina and can't see that well right now, especially errors!

 

 Jay

 Do not archive

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Somehow a sentence was deleted from my previous post, the lead in of the

fourth paragraph.  I added it below:



Regards,



Randy L. Thwing





 	  Quote: 	
		   I don't have a camera here at the plant, but I do have Ryerson steel's

data
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   book.  From the Aluminum structural shapes section:



 American Standard:  Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,

 channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.



 Sharp Corner:  Flanges and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are

 sharp, with nearly invisible radii.



 American Standard shapes have tapered flanges or legs, but ONLY on the

inside.  There is also a filet where the two legs join.  If
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square,  if you put a

 square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet,

and
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the legs are tapered.



 The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not

a
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside

and
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   it will measure square.  There is no taper of the flanges or legs.



 When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily

available
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   in the "American Standard" shape.



 If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but

 is available in 6063-T52.



 Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"

 book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52

angle.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 When you go to Home Depot, they usually have the sharp corner version and

it
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   is usually marked "architectural"  It is made for attaching awnings to

your
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   RV, not building wing spars.



 not available as stock items.  Anyone can have them made, but the minimum

 run would probably be 1000 lbs plus.  ZA does this as they are constantly

 selling their sizes.  So in the case of the 3/4 x 3/4 x .093, you buy that

 size but in the .125 thickness and you order some longer rivets.  In the

 case of the 1 1/2 x 1 x .125 (is that right?) you will have to buy 1 1/2 x

1
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   1/2 angle and cut one leg down as instructed by Larry Mac and the other

 Builders.  As Builders have stated, you can't find the ZA sizes as stock

 items.  So order from ZA or get out the saw, set the fench, steal the

 candles and start cutting!



 Regards,



 Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Gary-

    Two things.

    1. Extrusions I bought from Wick's were square, while the ones from ACS 

were rounded. I have no idea whether this is their stocking policy or 

coincidence.

    2. Anyone dealing in critical materials should have "Material Certs" 

that come in with every shipment on file. Kick back, relax, and ask to see 

the applicable cert, which will tell you the exact composition of the alloy.

Bill Naumuk

40%HDS being relocated to new shop

Townville, Pa



 	  Quote:

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Bill,



I'll follow-up with the supplier to see Material Certs. If I cannot verify,

then I'll simply repurchase a verifiable product.



Gary Boothe

Cool, CA

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion

Tail done, working on wings....



    2. Anyone dealing in critical materials should have "Material Certs" 

that come in with every shipment on file. Kick back, relax, and ask to see 

the applicable cert, which will tell you the exact composition of the alloy.

Bill Naumuk

40%HDS being relocated to new shop

Townville, Pa



 	  Quote:

admin(at)arachnidrobotics
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

    Chances are it's 5052, which is the 'standard' angle shipped by most distributors if you don't specify 6061-T6.  Your best bet is to call the company you bought it from and ask for the material certification that should have come with your order.  Most companies add a surcharge for the certs, but it's sometimes the only way you can be sure you're getting what you ordered.  Angle and Extrusion aren't always ink marked as aluminum sheet is.  

    If the company you purchased the extrusion from doesn't offer certs, switch companies.  McMaster Carr carries everything you might need if you can't find another source, although they are about 10% more expensive on average.

    If you're still set on identifying your particular extrusion, you won't be happy.  The equipment to test is available, but runs about $1000 for the temper test alone.  You still won't know the metallurgy at that  point.  You DON'T want to put a softer or more brittle type of aluminum on the aircraft, especially the if we're talking about the longerons.  

Gary Boothe <gboothe(at)calply.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" 



Randy,



You are most helpful.



Since this was not a special order item that I acquired (1 1/2" x 1 1/2"

ext.aluminum), and since it has sharp corners and no inside web, and since

it has uniformly thick flanges, chances are that it is 6063. Do I understand

correctly?



Gary Boothe

Cool, CA

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion

Tail done, working on wings....



American Standard:  Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,

channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.



Sharp Corner:  Flanges  and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are

sharp, with nearly invisible radii.



but ONLY on the inside.  There is also a filet where the two legs join.  If

you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square,  if you put a

square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet, and

the legs are tapered.



The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not a

perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside and

it will measure square.  There is no taper of the flanges or legs.



When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily available

in the "American Standard" shape.



If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but

is available in 6063-T52.



Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"

book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Use the 2024-T3 but be aware that it has  significantly less corrosion resistance than 6061-T6. You want to store it in a  safe dry area and prime it thoroughly at the earliest possible  opportunity.

  

 Ed Moody II

 [quote]   ---

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

Good to know. I assumed all “extruded” angles had square edges (of course you know what they say about assuming . . .).   

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.  

Empennage done; working on wings and engine.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:55 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.  

  

   

Gary, The shape of an angle has nothing to do with its metallic properties.  Architectural supply companies have aluminum angles that have rounded toes and roots (just like a rolled steel angle) or with square edges and root (called square root angles).  All of the extruded aluminum angles supplied by ZAC have square edges and roots.

 

 Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage, stalled waiting for MORE clecoes!

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

I meant to say, “I assumed all extruded angle had ROUND edges”. I’m so confused. But thanks for the info.   

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.  

Empennage done; working on wings and engine.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:58 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Another Scrap-builder Question.  

  

   

Good to know. I assumed all “extruded” angles had square edges (of course you know what they say about assuming . . .).   

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.  

Empennage done; working on wings and engine.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:55 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.  

  

   

Gary, The shape of an angle has nothing to do with its metallic properties.  Architectural supply companies have aluminum angles that have rounded toes and roots (just like a rolled steel angle) or with square edges and root (called square root angles).  All of the extruded aluminum angles supplied by ZAC have square edges and roots.

 

 Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage, stalled waiting for MORE clecoes!

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

Flydog1966(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:15:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  nfivesl(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  the ZAC    supplied angles from my rudder

workshop were absolutely square.  I    have purchased

other 6061-T6 extrusions from Aircraft Spruce that

were    square. 

	


 

     And I'll  second that ! And I would use 2024 T3,or  T4 in place of 6061 T6,but  free advice is worth the price you pay. Why not  ask Zenith for there advice?

     do not archive

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question.

In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:36:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  gboothe(at)calply.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Anyone    got any ideas on how to ID 6061 extruded vs. 6063

	


 

  If its not printed right down the length of it, like every piece of  "aircraft grade"alum(or 2024 T3/4), I would find some other use for it.

    do not archive

    Flydog

    ch 701

    too much to go

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