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Jaybannist(at)cs.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Gary, My only suggestion would be to trace the heritage of the stull you have on hand. In other words, go to whomever sold it to you, and if necessary, to the one that sold it to them. Someone along the line should know what it is.
Good luck! - Jay
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gboothe(at)calply.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Randy,
You are most helpful.
Since this was not a special order item that I acquired (1 1/2" x 1 1/2"
ext.aluminum), and since it has sharp corners and no inside web, and since
it has uniformly thick flanges, chances are that it is 6063. Do I understand
correctly?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
American Standard: Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,
channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.
Sharp Corner: Flanges and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are
sharp, with nearly invisible radii.
but ONLY on the inside. There is also a filet where the two legs join. If
you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square, if you put a
square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet, and
the legs are tapered.
The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not a
perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside and
it will measure square. There is no taper of the flanges or legs.
When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily available
in the "American Standard" shape.
If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but
is available in 6063-T52.
Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"
book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52 angle.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
Quote: | FYI guys, the ZAC supplied angles from my rudder
workshop were absolutely square. I have purchased
other 6061-T6 extrusions from Aircraft Spruce that
were square.
Scott Laughlin
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gboothe(at)calply.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Thanks, Jay. He’ll look funny walking around with it stuck up his you-know-what….
Gary
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From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:35 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.
Gary, My only suggestion would be to trace the heritage of the stull you have on hand. In other words, go to whomever sold it to you, and if necessary, to the one that sold it to them. Someone along the line should know what it is.
Good luck! - Jay
Do not archive
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Jaybannist(at)cs.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Gary, I typed "stull" and meant to type "stuff." Sorry. I am recovering from a detatched retina and can't see that well right now, especially errors!
Jay
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n4546v(at)mindspring.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Somehow a sentence was deleted from my previous post, the lead in of the
fourth paragraph. I added it below:
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing
Quote: | I don't have a camera here at the plant, but I do have Ryerson steel's
data
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Quote: | book. From the Aluminum structural shapes section:
American Standard: Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,
channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.
Sharp Corner: Flanges and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are
sharp, with nearly invisible radii.
American Standard shapes have tapered flanges or legs, but ONLY on the
inside. There is also a filet where the two legs join. If
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Quote: | you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square, if you put a
square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet,
and
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Quote: | the legs are tapered.
The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not
a
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Quote: | perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside
and
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Quote: | it will measure square. There is no taper of the flanges or legs.
When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily
available
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Quote: | in the "American Standard" shape.
If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but
is available in 6063-T52.
Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"
book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52
angle.
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Quote: |
When you go to Home Depot, they usually have the sharp corner version and
it
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Quote: | is usually marked "architectural" It is made for attaching awnings to
your
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Quote: | RV, not building wing spars.
not available as stock items. Anyone can have them made, but the minimum
run would probably be 1000 lbs plus. ZA does this as they are constantly
selling their sizes. So in the case of the 3/4 x 3/4 x .093, you buy that
size but in the .125 thickness and you order some longer rivets. In the
case of the 1 1/2 x 1 x .125 (is that right?) you will have to buy 1 1/2 x
1
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Quote: | 1/2 angle and cut one leg down as instructed by Larry Mac and the other
Builders. As Builders have stated, you can't find the ZA sizes as stock
items. So order from ZA or get out the saw, set the fench, steal the
candles and start cutting!
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
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naumuk(at)alltel.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Gary-
Two things.
1. Extrusions I bought from Wick's were square, while the ones from ACS
were rounded. I have no idea whether this is their stocking policy or
coincidence.
2. Anyone dealing in critical materials should have "Material Certs"
that come in with every shipment on file. Kick back, relax, and ask to see
the applicable cert, which will tell you the exact composition of the alloy.
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS being relocated to new shop
Townville, Pa
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gboothe(at)calply.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Bill,
I'll follow-up with the supplier to see Material Certs. If I cannot verify,
then I'll simply repurchase a verifiable product.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
2. Anyone dealing in critical materials should have "Material Certs"
that come in with every shipment on file. Kick back, relax, and ask to see
the applicable cert, which will tell you the exact composition of the alloy.
Bill Naumuk
40%HDS being relocated to new shop
Townville, Pa
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admin(at)arachnidrobotics Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Chances are it's 5052, which is the 'standard' angle shipped by most distributors if you don't specify 6061-T6. Your best bet is to call the company you bought it from and ask for the material certification that should have come with your order. Most companies add a surcharge for the certs, but it's sometimes the only way you can be sure you're getting what you ordered. Angle and Extrusion aren't always ink marked as aluminum sheet is.
If the company you purchased the extrusion from doesn't offer certs, switch companies. McMaster Carr carries everything you might need if you can't find another source, although they are about 10% more expensive on average.
If you're still set on identifying your particular extrusion, you won't be happy. The equipment to test is available, but runs about $1000 for the temper test alone. You still won't know the metallurgy at that point. You DON'T want to put a softer or more brittle type of aluminum on the aircraft, especially the if we're talking about the longerons.
Gary Boothe <gboothe(at)calply.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
Randy,
You are most helpful.
Since this was not a special order item that I acquired (1 1/2" x 1 1/2"
ext.aluminum), and since it has sharp corners and no inside web, and since
it has uniformly thick flanges, chances are that it is 6063. Do I understand
correctly?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
American Standard: Similar in cross section to rolled steel angles,
channels and beams - with traditional tapered flanges, rounded ends.
Sharp Corner: Flanges and webs are uniformly thick and all corners are
sharp, with nearly invisible radii.
but ONLY on the inside. There is also a filet where the two legs join. If
you put a square on the OUTSIDE of the angle, it is Square, if you put a
square on the inside, you cannot bottom the square because of the filet, and
the legs are tapered.
The sharp corner shape has no taper, no filet on the inside (ok, it's not a
perfect sharp corner) you can put a square on the outside or the inside and
it will measure square. There is no taper of the flanges or legs.
When you go to select the size and alloy, 6061-T6 is only readily available
in the "American Standard" shape.
If you switch to the "Sharp Corner" shape, it is not listed in 6061-T6 but
is available in 6063-T52.
Ryerson does not mention the word: "Architectural" but my "Speedy Metals"
book mentions "Architectural" ONLY under the "Sharp Corner" 6063-T52
| - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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dredmoody(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Use the 2024-T3 but be aware that it has significantly less corrosion resistance than 6061-T6. You want to store it in a safe dry area and prime it thoroughly at the earliest possible opportunity.
Ed Moody II
[quote] ---
| - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 171 Location: Nashville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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Good to know. I assumed all “extruded” angles had square edges (of course you know what they say about assuming . . .).
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:55 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.
Gary, The shape of an angle has nothing to do with its metallic properties. Architectural supply companies have aluminum angles that have rounded toes and roots (just like a rolled steel angle) or with square edges and root (called square root angles). All of the extruded aluminum angles supplied by ZAC have square edges and roots.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage, stalled waiting for MORE clecoes!
| - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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_________________ KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds |
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Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 171 Location: Nashville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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I meant to say, “I assumed all extruded angle had ROUND edges”. I’m so confused. But thanks for the info.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:58 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Another Scrap-builder Question.
Good to know. I assumed all “extruded” angles had square edges (of course you know what they say about assuming . . .).
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:55 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Another Scrap-builder Question.
Gary, The shape of an angle has nothing to do with its metallic properties. Architectural supply companies have aluminum angles that have rounded toes and roots (just like a rolled steel angle) or with square edges and root (called square root angles). All of the extruded aluminum angles supplied by ZAC have square edges and roots.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage, stalled waiting for MORE clecoes!
| - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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_________________ KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds |
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Flydog1966(at)AOL.COM Guest
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:15:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nfivesl(at)yahoo.com writes:
Quote: | the ZAC supplied angles from my rudder
workshop were absolutely square. I have purchased
other 6061-T6 extrusions from Aircraft Spruce that
were square.
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And I'll second that ! And I would use 2024 T3,or T4 in place of 6061 T6,but free advice is worth the price you pay. Why not ask Zenith for there advice?
do not archive
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Flydog1966(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Another Scrap-builder Question. |
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In a message dated 7/17/2006 5:36:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
Quote: | Anyone got any ideas on how to ID 6061 extruded vs. 6063
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If its not printed right down the length of it, like every piece of "aircraft grade"alum(or 2024 T3/4), I would find some other use for it.
do not archive
Flydog
ch 701
too much to go
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